Moral Nihilism

[Nous]

Objective morality has yet to be discovered.

Where did someone look?

 

[Nous]

. . . why are you on this website proclaiming most every day, or even multiple times per day, that people should or should not do x or y or that there should be a law against z?

@Revoltingest alert me when you get brave enough to address this question.

 

[Revoltingest]

Where did someone look?

Millions of philosophers (both amateur & profession) have looked all over the place.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest alert me when you get brave enough to address this question.

Bravery isn't an issue when you ask such easy questions.

The answer is based upon a consensus of feelings.
We believe these values / judgements.
Caution:
It's not "believe" in the sense of thinking them to be factual,
but "believe" in the sense that this is what we value.
But don't think that The Truth exists simply because a majority
of people share these feelings. And note also that there are
always people with different feelings...ones which cannot be
proven wrong using logic & "true" premises.

Feelings are not "The Truth" simply because they're both
strongly & widely held.

 

[Nous]

Millions of philosophers (both amateur & profession) have looked all over the place.

Really???? Prove it.

How come there are so many professional philosophers who express forms of moral realism?

 

[Revoltingest]

How come there are so many professional philosophers who express forms of moral realism?

Philosophers very often make boneheaded claims.
They too confuse certainty of feelings with inerrant objective truth.
I invite you to present one of their arguments for our analysis & criticism.

 

[Nous]

Bravery isn't an issue when you ask such easy questions.

The answer is based upon a consensus of feelings.
We believe these values / judgements.
Caution:
It's not "believe" in the sense of thinking them to be factual,
but "believe" in the sense that this is what we value.
But don't think that The Truth exists simply because a majority
of people share these feelings. And note also that there are
always people with different feelings...ones which cannot be
proven wrong using logic & "true" premises.

Feelings are not "The Truth" simply because they're both
strongly & widely held.

O go back to my original question, then: Why allow your feelings or values to dictate to you a proposition about the rightness or wrongness of something that you have already concluded is contrary to what is true? E.g., when you rail against people needlessly dragging others into court and the defendants have to pay for their defense, why don't you just say that your feelings and values have no relationship to reality, that all your claims of shoulds and should -nots are just babbling nonsense?

 

[Nous]

Philosophers very often make boneheaded claims.
They too confuse certainty of feelings with inerrant objective truth.
I invite you to present one of their arguments for our analysis & criticism.

My own argument (not sure from whom I stole it) is that the existence of objective moral facts is no more "problematic" than the existence of objective mathematical facts and objective logical facts.

 

[Revoltingest]

O go back to my original question, then: Why allow your feelings or values to dictate to you a proposition about the rightness or wrongness of something that you have already concluded is contrary to what is true? E.g., when you rail against people needlessly dragging others into court and the defendants have to pay for their defense, why don't you just say that your feelings and values have no relationship to reality, that all your claims of shoulds and should -nots are just babbling nonsense?

"Babbling"?
You should work on avoiding anger over mere disagreement.
Follow my example....I'm not at all angry at or offended by your
views. I find this interesting & amusing. Equanimity is good.

You haven't yet offered which morals are true, & why they are true.
(Someone here might say "Prove it.".
I invite you to start there, rather than with objections to nihilism.
As for why feelings dictate morality...this is because feelings are
what motivate us to do what we do. If we take them as premises,
we can logically reason from them. But it doesn't make'm true.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I am a moral nihilist, which in my view doesn't mean I am amoral but that all morals untimately are a matter of personal feelings. IOW there's really no rational, logical, scientific justification for an absolute moral position.

While we may attempt to find an rational excuse to justify a moral position it really comes down to a feeling about what is right and what is wrong.

So my morals - sense of what is right and wrong behavior in the moment, as I see it, is based on my feelings at that moment. My feelings can change. My morals can change.

IMO, we can't always 100% know the source of our feelings, therefore we can't always know 100% why we feel some things are right and some things are wrong.

IMO, all that matters is whether or not we are helping right now. That is our fight.

 

[Nakosis]

IMO, all that matters is whether or not we are helping right now. That is our fight.

IMO, you get to choose that, for yourself. Your are free to choose what is important and decide the right course of action to support it.

 

[Nakosis]

For whatever reason you didn't answer my question -- at least directly. But it sounds to me that in all this you are trying to say that you don't know whether or not there are objective moral facts (such as "Rape is immoral"). Is that about right as to what ou were trying to express?

Sure, I'm saying I haven't seen persuasive evidence of objective moral facts. Therefore have no reason to believe in their existence.

 

[Audie]

I am a moral nihilist, which in my view doesn't mean I am amoral but that all morals untimately are a matter of personal feelings. IOW there's really no rational, logical, scientific justification for an absolute moral position.

While we may attempt to find an rational excuse to justify a moral position it really comes down to a feeling about what is right and what is wrong.

So my morals - sense of what is right and wrong behavior in the moment, as I see it, is based on my feelings at that moment. My feelings can change. My morals can change.

IMO, we can't always 100% know the source of our feelings, therefore we can't always know 100% why we feel some things are right and some things are wrong.

My take on this is that doing whatever you happen
to FEEL like doing is precisely the definition of
self indulgence.

Which, I hear, is Satan's fav. vice.

Just sayin'.

 

[Audie]

IMO, you get to choose that, for yourself. Your are free to choose what is important and decide the right course of action to support it.

Free to do that you are, but not so free about
the consequences.

 

[Audie]

Objective morality has yet to be discovered.
Prove otherwise, bruderherz.

More questions....
Whence cometh objective morality.....gods, physics?
How is it proven to be inerrant truth?

Dont you think there is a middle way?

I do not need objective proof of an absolute,
and dont think there is any such, anyway.

Nor do I think one should properly do just
whatev suits them at the moment.

I suppose absolutes or "nihilism" have great
appeal to those who find thinking to be hard work.

 

[Revoltingest]

My take on this is that doing whatever you happen
to FEEL like doing is precisely the definition of
self indulgence.

Which, I hear, is Satan's fav. vice.

Just sayin'.

It's more complicated for me.
Let's say I see something for sale at a flea market.
An antique oiler, which I'd value at $300.
But the seller is a poor bumpkin who doesn't know what he has.
He only wants $10.
I'd be tempted to pay the $10, & scurry off away to show off me find.
But I also feel a fiduciary responsibility to lesser people.
So I'd pay more than is being asked.
I do that sometimes.

What we feel is more than just a whim at the moment.
It's also a larger picture we feel part of.
Disclaimer (cuz of that other thread):
By "we", I don't include everyone.

 

[Revoltingest]

Dont you think there is a middle way?

I do not need objective proof of an absolute,
and dont think there is any such, anyway.

Nor do I think one should properly do just
whatev suits them at the moment.

I suppose absolutes or "nihilism" have great
appeal to those who find thinking to be hard work.

There are many ways.

 

[Nakosis]

My take on this is that doing whatever you happen
to FEEL like doing is precisely the definition of
self indulgence.

Which, I hear, is Satan's fav. vice.

Just sayin'.

IMO, that's what folks do anyway. They feel something is right and that's how they act. Even if it is to act according to a set of laws, it's because they feel it is the right thing to do.

 

[Audie]

There are many ways.

Obi?

 

[Revoltingest]

Obi?

Not being wise....just unable to count.