Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
NO, they just have different morals than you do.
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Morality is not subjective
- Thread starter JRMcC
- Start date
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Don't know how you would prove your particular god exists, much less that it is the originator of morals. Is your god subject to morals that preexisted, or does he make them up himself and is he bound or not bound to follow them himself?
Not sure of the rest of your assertion. Are you trying to say that there is one or more "absolute" moral or that there absolutely are morals (which would be stating the obvious). If the first, can you list several and show how they are absolute?
Morals only exist because God exist. God is beyond our realm, he is beyond our morals, if not, he wouldn't be worth worshipping. God is the perfection of good, which is beyond our ability to comprehend, thus it's why he can judge us. Absolute good and evil do exist, because God exist. You have no ability to prove otherwise on how morals originated, other than God, who isn't affected by time, space or matter.
McBell
Unbound
I shall not hold my breath awaiting you to prove the above bold empty claim.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You have just made a bunch of assertions without proving anything. And then you implore others to prove you wrong, thus attempting to shift the burden of proof. If you say morals originated from god, then you need to prove that. It's not on someone else to disprove it.
If you are seriously interested just write "evolution of morality" in any good search engine and you'll find a lot of information on how and why morality evolved.
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks...
Why did morals "evolve"..??...lol - they DIDNT - we ALWAYS had them - our eternal nature IS a moral existance - theres the clue Folks - ETERNAL nature
Morals themselves didnt evolve - our ABILITY TO COMPREHEND THE SELF - that is what evolved - and as it did so we now come to recognise the Self as that which we always are - an eternal Soul - and it is the inner journey of this Self discovery that uncovers out notions of morals and ethics that have always been at the root and cause of our existance...
Why did morals "evolve"..??...lol - they DIDNT - we ALWAYS had them - our eternal nature IS a moral existance - theres the clue Folks - ETERNAL nature
Morals themselves didnt evolve - our ABILITY TO COMPREHEND THE SELF - that is what evolved - and as it did so we now come to recognise the Self as that which we always are - an eternal Soul - and it is the inner journey of this Self discovery that uncovers out notions of morals and ethics that have always been at the root and cause of our existance...
McBell
Unbound
Kent Hovind?
Seriously?
Cause if you seriously think Kent Hovind is anything other than the fraud he was prosecuted for......
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
What do you mean "beyond our morals"? Do you mean he operates without morals? Or do you mean he has morals that are different? What then are his morals and how do you know they are different?
Can you answer any of the questions I posed in my last post?
y
If god is beyond our comprehension, then you cannot possible claim to understand anything about him/her/it. you cannot say a thing is incomprehensible and then start telling others what you claim to know about the incomprehensible thing.
How can a mere mortal totally explain a supernatural being who created us, it can't be done. The bible tells us who created all and why. If he created us it would only make sense that the morals we have are less then his if he's the one that will judge us.
Isaiah 55:9, King James Bible
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Acts 17:31,
King James Version
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
You seem ill equipped for this discussion. Bible quotes have absolutely no weight with anyone that does not already buy in to the myths.
I did not ask you to "totally explain" your "inconceivable" god. I asked you to support a single assertion that you have made.
You must provide substantial scientific evidence that your god actually exists first. Then we can discuss what he does or does not do. You have already told me it is not possible to even conceive of your god. if that is the case, then nobody, not even you have ever conceived of it, and yet you proceed to tell me what he does. That is not logically consistent. You obviously have a concept of him already, no matter how weak or ill conceived.
To pull you back around to the assertion of the original post........provide sound evidence that your god is the source of morality. And I do not mean cherry pick quotes from old stories.
I don't have to prove anything your way, I proved it my way and billions of others that believe my way. You prove my so called myth, as you say, wrong, good luck.
There's evidence of God's creation all around you and in your own mirror, whether you accept a supernatural God which you're wanting proof in a natural world, is absurd.
How is it cherry picking when I chose the verses that were needed to prove my point?
I'm waiting for you to prove scientifically how morals came to be..
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Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Well, first, they offer no evidence to support your assertion. They are merely lines from a story. Second, there are plenty of verses from the same collection of stories which demonstrate the immorality of your god based on the very morals you say he dictated.
If morals are subject to your god's whims, then they are subjective. If they originate outside of him and he cannot change them, then maybe you can argue that they are not subjective.
Pick the best single piece of evidence you have from the evidence that you say is all around and show why it cannot have any other explanation.
I
I did not make the original assertion and therefore I do not bear the burden of disproving anything. The person making the assertion bears the burden to show that his assertion is true. I am merely questioning your assertion.
I will be happy to support any positive assertions that I have made, however.
We evolved a survival instinct so we don't want to get murdered. So we prosecute people for murder and say murdering people is illegal and immoral. No God required to tell us that murder is immoral.
The devil was the first in learning that doing something wrong carried with it a penalty and was prosecuted for it, and he was created before man, check mate, care to try again.
That would just be your opinion. According to most US Christians the Devil doesn't even exist. http://www.forgottenword.org/barna-4-09.html
That's absurd, because if the devil didn't exist, then Jesus wouldn't have needed to died for us, which would make the bible unnecessary.
Vorkosigan
Member
I think it’s irrelevant.
If there is an objective morality, we have no way to find it from our couches (subjectivity). Also thousands of religions and creeds, all claim to have the word of god. They are not a reliable source of knowledge of any kind (morality included).
My point is, instead of wasting time trying to find the objective morality, let’s create our own (as we have been doing so far) and let’s make it a good one, based on empirical evidence like the “bill of rights” for example.
I am also not impressed by the argument that says that if there is a god there is a sound foundation for morality. Because there is no way to know what god wants (or if there is a god at all).