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Morality Made Simple

joe1776

Well-Known Member
I posted this earlier in General Religious Debates not realizing this forum existed.

We humans are much too proud of our ability to reason. Because of that, we have complicated and confused the relatively simple problem of using our intuitive moral sense (conscience) to make judgments.

According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality. A deep sense of good and evil is bred in the bone. His research shows that babies and toddlers can judge the goodness and badness of others' actions; they want to reward the good and punish the bad; they act to help those in distress; they feel guilt, shame, pride, and righteous anger.

We have two brain functions involved in making judgments on moral questions. The reasoning function (left brain) will collect the facts involved in a specific case. The moral instincts function (right brain) will then take over and make an instinctive judgment on questions that concern right or wrong and fair or unfair.

Seven guidelines learned from our intuitive moral sense (conscience):

1. Don't use your reasoning function to make moral rules or laws and don't be guided by moral rules or laws about any type of act like killing, stealing, incest, lying, and so on.

2. An act is immoral if it intentionally harms or intentionally endangers an innocent person.

3. Any act is moral if it is done in self-defense or to protect innocent others; and when the harm done is only sufficient to stop the attack.

4. Any act is moral if it does the least harm in a moral dilemma. When two option both feel intuitively wrong, the reasoning function of the brain, and not the intuitive, probably weighs for the lesser harm and makes the final judgment.

5. If an act is morally wrong, it will immediately feel wrong. The judgment will be followed by a desire to see the wrongdoer punished.

6. If an act is unfair, it will immediately feel unfair and it will be hard to explain why it is unfair.


7. When all the facts of a moral case are available, judgment by the collective conscience of a group of people, unbiased on the case, is the one and only moral authority we have.

Some examples of the application of these six guidelines:

Traffic accidents cause harm but, absent the intent to harm, they are not immoral.(See #2)

"Abortion is murder!" This self-made moral rule (See #1) forms a bias which sends judgment off course. The judgment of murder is unconfirmed when, as a general rule, there is no desire to see the woman who terminates her pregnancy severely punished (See #5).

The countries which legalize prostitution are morally right since there is no harm done to an innocent person (See #2).

The states which allow euthanasia are morally right because the intent is not to harm but to prevent suffering (See #2).

You should not kill, (See #1) the commandment, when interpreted as a general rule is useless when we need guidance in a specific case which could be an exception. And when interpreted as an absolute rule -- You should never kill -- it becomes a bias which will send judgment off course when we are presented with a clear case of self-defense (See #3).

The Christian law prohibiting fornication should be ignored (See #1). Consensual sex between two adults who aren't cheating on anyone is not immoral because there's no intent to harm an innocent person (See #2).

The writers of the TV series 24 gave Kiefer Sutherland a moral dilemma every week. In one show, he murdered a friend in order to save thousands in L.A. from a dirty bomb. There is no act that is always immoral since a real life moral dilemma could offer it up as the lesser harm. (See #4)

Driving drunk is morally wrong because it intentionally endangers innocent people (See #2).

I invite criticism, but please bear in mind that if you add facts or alter the facts in any of my examples, you haven't challenged my judgment, you have presented a different moral case.

edit: I added a seventh guideline in order to clarify that the actor's own own opinion of morality is not relevant
 
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DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality.

You lost me right there. There are no human beings qualified to determine what is and/or is not moral or ethical, we have all sinned and fall short of perfect glory.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality.

You lost me right there. There are no human beings qualified to determine what is and/or is not moral or ethical, we have all sinned and fall short of perfect glory.

Ethics and morality are the "rules" that guide how we interact with others. We're empathetic social animals -we care about others and have an innate sense of fairness, and societies require such rules for security and stability. We cooperate for mutual benefit and out of rational self-interest. Good ethics and morals can be determined with reason and compassion.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality.

You lost me right there. There are no human beings qualified to determine what is and/or is not moral or ethical, we have all sinned and fall short of perfect glory.

Oh, since we're all immoral, why even bother trying then?
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Ethics and morality are the "rules" that guide how we interact with others. We're empathetic social animals -we care about others and have an innate sense of fairness, and societies require such rules for security and stability. We cooperate for mutual benefit and out of rational self-interest. Good ethics and morals can be determined with reason and compassion.

Please present such a list of good ethics and morals determined with reason and compassion.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Well, God is holy and all knowing while men are all liars. Try the God of Israel.

Thanks, but I'm fine without it. I've never needed a list of commandments in an old book to act like a decent human being. Although, I am glad we have it for the people who aren't capable of that.
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
So, questions for those following this topic, do you think people who do immoral things are acting based on a fear or misjudgement of morality? For example, do people who intentionally harm others (through hate crimes or out of a strange motive) reason themselves into justifying their moral position through experiences that somehow make it seem reasonable or even necessary to harm others?

What how would that change if there is a genetic rather than traumatic disorder of the mentality of the person in question?
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
So, questions for those following this topic, do you think people who do immoral things are acting based on a fear or misjudgement of morality? For example, do people who intentionally harm others (through hate crimes or out of a strange motive) reason themselves into justifying their moral position through experiences that somehow make it seem reasonable or even necessary to harm others?

What how would that change if there is a genetic rather than traumatic disorder of the mentality of the person in question?
I think arrogance, and its constant companion, arrogant entitlement, should be our prime suspect for moral failures. For example, many crimes are the result of racism. My guess is that racism isn't about race at all. Race is simply one of many pretexts one might use to feel superior to others.

Adolf Hitler used all these pretexts to persuade the German people to attack their Eastern neighbors:

Our race is superior to theirs!
Our religion is superior to theirs!
Our nation is superior to theirs!

As an example of arrogant entitlement, he told them that, as members of a master race, they were entitled to take land by force for their own expansion (lebensraum).

I think we're all genetically infected with arrogance in a range from mild to severe.

Arrogance might also be called narcissism, egotism, vanity, superiority complex and dozens of other words.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Six guidelines learned from our intuitive moral sense (conscience):

1. Don't use your reasoning function to make moral rules or laws and don't be guided by moral rules or laws about any type of act like killing, stealing, incest, lying, and so on.

So we can't make laws prohibiting murder, theft, incest, lying and so on? Whose reasoning function to make moral rules should we go by?

2. An act is immoral if it intentionally harms or intentionally endangers an innocent person.

Define: intentional; harm; endangers; innocent person.

3. Any act is moral if it is done in self-defense or to protect innocent others; and when the harm done is only sufficient to stop the attack.

Define: act; harm; self-defense; protect; innocent others; sufficient to stop the attack.

4. Any act is moral if it does the least harm in a moral dilemma. When two option both feel intuitively wrong, the reasoning function of the brain probably weighs for the lesser harm and makes the final judgment.

Probably?

5. If an act is morally wrong, it will immediately feel wrong. The judgment will be followed by a desire to see the wrongdoer punished.

I feel sure Hitler felt no harm in ridding the world of Jews.

6. If an act is unfair, it will immediately feel unfair and it will be hard to explain why it is unfair.

I feel sure Hitler felt fair in ridding the world of Jews.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
So we can't make laws prohibiting murder, theft, incest, lying and so on? Whose reasoning function to make moral rules should we go by?
If you read the guideline again, it also advises not to be guided by moral rules.

Define: intentional; harm; endangers; innocent person.
Use dictionary definitions for all I've written.

Define: act; harm; self-defense; protect; innocent others; sufficient to stop the attack.
See above.

Probably?
Yes, it seems likely but I'm not certain. Two parts of the brain light up under fMRI when people consider moral dilemmas.

I feel sure Hitler felt no harm in ridding the world of Jews.
The questions for unbiased minds to judge are 1) Did Hitler cause harm to innocent people? and 2)Were his acts intentional? The answers to both are obviously YES.
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
There is no one that can provide us with a perfect list, is there?

There is no such thing as a "perfect list" of ethics/morals.

It is, however, quite easy to make a list of ethics/morals that are vastly superior to the irrational, arbitrary, and unjust "morals" of ancient primitives (i.e. the bible, koran, etc.)
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as a "perfect list" of ethics/morals.

It is, however, quite easy to make a list of ethics/morals that are vastly superior to the irrational, arbitrary, and unjust "morals" of ancient primitives (i.e. the bible, koran, etc.)

Yes, there is.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
If you read the guideline again, it also advises not to be guided by moral rules.

Use dictionary definitions for all I've written.

See above.

Yes, it seems likely but I'm not certain. Two parts of the brain light up under fMRI when people consider moral dilemmas.

The questions for unbiased minds to judge are 1) Did Hitler cause harm to innocent people? and 2)Were his acts intentional? The answers to both are obviously YES.

Not according to Hitler. He thought what he was doing was the the right, moral thing to do.
 
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