More Guns, Less Crime

[Autodidact]

My initial foray into Google seems to indicate that Lott's methods are controversial, that some research supports him and other research negates his findings, and that the National Academy of Science, in summarizing the state of our knowledge about this, believes that it's inconclusive.

Here's a page that collects the work critical of Lott:
VPC - Unintended Consequences - Appendix B

In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences conducted a review of current research and data on firearms and violent crime, including Lott's work, and found that "there is no credible evidence that 'right-to-carry' laws, which allow qualified adults to carry concealed handguns, either decrease or increase violent crime." [wiki] (the link works, if you want to check out the reference.)

btw, Lott seems to be quite a colorful and controversial figure. While looking into this, I found this oddity on wiki:
In early 2003, some critics suggested that Lott had created and used "Mary Rosh" as a fake persona to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After three years of investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott immediately admitted to use of the Rosh persona, but insists that he had not done anything academically unusual, let alone unprofessional.[40]
Lott's opponents, however, maintain that several uses of his nom de plume transgressed normal practice, arguing that he praised himself while posing as one of his former students,[41][42] and that "Rosh" was used to post a favorable review of More Guns, Less Crime on Amazon.com. Lott has claimed that the "Rosh" review was written by his son and wife.

Weird.

So my current position is that as best we know, which is not conclusive, concealed carry laws have no effect on violent crime. I wonder what effect, if any, they have on accidental gun-related injuries.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Auto,

O.K., only 12 pages later and now we know what you're claiming, which is that concealed carry laws reduce crime.

Yes, due to your well meaning, but nonetheless incorrect reasoning and arguments it took this long.

I'm sure you can understand why I responded to the thesis that more guns cause less crime, since that was the title of your thread. I think we have seen that this is clearly not the case.

Actually I mention 'concealed carry' numerous time in the OP.

Not really. There were also no shootings before the law, which has never been enforced. Basically the law had no effect. That does not stop World Nut Daily and anyone who has the poor judgment to read it from describing it as though it were amazing.

But your argument has been that more guns mean more crime. Shouldn't this have occurred?

 

[Engyo]

I'll go back to something that I posted a number of pages back. We have concealed carry laws in Texas and we have high crime.

Why is that?

Especialy when you add in that we routinely nobill folks who kill in defense of their homes and property, and that we have the highest execution rate and one of the highest incarceration rates in the country.

By all of your arguments this should not be possible, yet it is true. Why?

 

[Alceste]

But your argument has been that more guns mean more crime. Shouldn't this have occurred?

Only if this piece of superfluous legislation actually resulted in more people owning guns. As Autodidact pointed out, it has never been enforced. So can you point to any evidence people actually did rush off and buy guns just because the government told them to? Did gun sales go up? If not, the example is totally irrelevant to a discussion of whether more guns = more crime, if you don't mind my saying so.

 

[Autodidact]

But your argument has been that more guns mean more crime. Shouldn't this have occurred?

Only if gun ownership actually increased in Kennesaw.

 

[Engyo]

September 10, 2008
Suicides by gun far outpace homicides

Suicides account for nearly six of every 10 gun deaths in Texas, a little-known statistic discussed by police and mental health experts at a news conference marking World Suicide Prevention Day.

Data from the Texas Department of State Health Services and Texas Department of Public Safety for 2005 indicates that of all firearm deaths in the state, 57 percent were suicides, 41 percent were homicides and 2 percent were accidents.

Merily Keller, co-chair of the Texas Suicide Prevention Council, urged lawmakers to consider those statistics next year when debating whether to change state law to allow college students licensed to carry concealed handgun to bring their weapons on campus.

"We do not want to do anything which will allow students a quick means of death," said Keller, who lost a son to suicide seven years ago.

She noted a national study released recently by University of Texas researchers that showed half of all college students had suicidal thoughts.

Keller said she is a fourth-generation rancher who is not anti-gun but is pro-gun safety.

Austin Police Chief Art Acevdo urged gun owners to use locks or even temporarily remove a gun from the home when a family member is depressed or going through a difficult time. His life also has been touched by a relative's suicide and the loss of 13 California Highway Patrol colleagues to suicide in an 18-month period.

Texans should talk frankly with anyone they believe may be thinking of taking his or her own life, Acevdeo said.

"It is not taboo to challenge (suicide) head on," said Acevedo. "There aren't second chances."

Texas Politics: Suicides by gun far outpace homicides

 

[Jeremy Mason]

While I'm a proponent for the right to bear arms, I'm also a proponent for continued firearm education. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but once a person goes through gun safety course, that's it. No follow up classes or re-certifying of ones gun safety credentials. As a fly fishing guide in Colorado, one must be CPR certified every year to two years depending on the type of class one takes. Continued gun safety re-certification should be the case for anyone who possess a fire arm.

In addition, a thorough psychological examination needs to be implemented on all people who possess fire arms as a part of their continued fire arm safety certification.