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More News on the Changing Evolution Scene :-) !!! :-)

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
X IS still X, no matter how the philosophical arena works it.
If x would become non-x, then evolution would be disproven.

So the fact that x remains x, supports evolution.

Ironic, isn't it?

I have really benefitted from my conversations about this, so thanks both for your insults and pointing to "information" as to why you believe evolution is the standard as to how life got here. :)

How SPECIES got here.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Say you and others that believe as you do.

So says reality. Humans factually are primates. And mammals. And vertebrates. And eukaryotes.
This is true, regardless of evolution being accurate or not.

As I have said, what you guys have done for me is very good, convincing me that creation and allowance of life is from God.

:rolleyes:

For societal generations to produce like kinded color of hair or skin is not evolution of the Darwinian kind. Still finches stay finches.

Evolution predicts that finches will stay finches.
If finches would become non-finches, evolution would be falsified.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It's fabulous to see the unique and wonderful qualities of the various forms of creation. And despite your assertions, the unique qualities of animals and flora did not just happen to happen. These qualities are beyond mankind's imagination (including Einstein's). Oh, and they are beyond the theory of evolution as propounded by also imagination because of similar dna. Soil and air have lots and lots of nutrients as well as microbes. Let's hear the astroid theory, shall we? Or how about some shot from outer space that electrified atoms in water or soil to put them together and then they grew (evolved) to gorillas and that unknown common ancestor, ok? Once again -- thanks to so many here for the insightful conversations. Much appreciated. :)

I wonder what you have been reading.
Nothing anyone said here is even remotely close to any of the strawmanning nonsense you just spewed.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Here's what I accept. There were two persons created by God. They were human. Not gorillas or gorilla-types classified as the "Unknown Common Ancestor." These first TWO ONLY humans (male and female) gave birth to others and the human race multiplied by natural means. Among those offspring were persons of variances, such as darker or lighter skin which were transferred noticeably, family groups sectioning off, tribes forming.


Genetics prove (yes, PROVE) that the population of homo sapiens, never consisted of only 2 individuals.
What you believe, is demonstrably incorrect.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Here's what I accept. There were two persons created by God. They were human. Not gorillas or gorilla-types classified as the "Unknown Common Ancestor." These first TWO ONLY humans (male and female) gave birth to others and the human race multiplied by natural means. Among those offspring were persons of variances, such as darker or lighter skin which were transferred noticeably, family groups sectioning off, tribes forming.

Do you believe the female was made from the rib of a male?

I still what to know why your god is the only true god implying the others are not true. Please explain.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yet again: it's not just about similarities. You said you'd read the article (Genesis and the Genome - pdf) but when I asked you specific questions about the actual evidence it contained (#136), you just responded with a bland assertion (#148). Now you're back misrepresenting the evidence as mere similarities again.

So, either you read the article or you didn't. If you did read it you either understood it or didn't. If you understood it you either have answers to the specifics of the evidence or you don't.

Now why would you not even attempt to address them? I suggest that if you did read, understand, and have answers, then you'd be really keen to tell everybody about how flawed the evidence is. So did you not read it, did you not understand it, or do you have no answers to it?
I read the article and I read the assertions and detailed comoplexities. As far as answers you ask of me, I believe that God is the initiator of life and the various forms we see. And that's about it for now. So ... have a good evening.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
I read the article and I read the assertions and detailed comoplexities. As far as answers you ask of me, I believe that God is the initiator of life and the various forms we see. And that's about it for now. So ... have a good evening.

A statement of blind belief isn't an answer. Why would god design the human genome with those broken genes that are exactly the sort of thing we'd expect if we evolved? And bear in mind this is just a tiny example of this sort of genetic evidence. Is you god trying to deceive people?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Yet again: it's not just about similarities. You said you'd read the article (Genesis and the Genome - pdf) but when I asked you specific questions about the actual evidence it contained (#136), you just responded with a bland assertion (#148). Now you're back misrepresenting the evidence as mere similarities again.

So, either you read the article or you didn't. If you did read it you either understood it or didn't. If you understood it you either have answers to the specifics of the evidence or you don't.

Now why would you not even attempt to address them? I suggest that if you did read, understand, and have answers, then you'd be really keen to tell everybody about how flawed the evidence is. So did you not read it, did you not understand it, or do you have no answers to it?

Just so you know you're not pissing in the wind (so to speak) I read the article. So thanks for linking.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So what do you believe is the case of Darwinian type evolution?
Virtually nothing at this point. Because when I look at the things around me, animal life, plant life, I no longer believe they just happened. But that there is a divine force backing their existence and formation.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Ignorance is bliss.

Willful ignorance is the result of deep religious indoctrination.
:) Again -- when I look at animal life, even think about the soil, the sun and its effect on life on earth, no -- I no longer believe these things just happened. The proclamations about evolution no longer impress me, since I believe the reasoning is wrong. No one has seen one form categorically turn into another. In fact, the science itself does not ascertain that since the investigation of the fossils do not show evolution. What they show is age perhaps, and DNA.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Virtually nothing at this point. Because when I look at the things around me, animal life, plant life, I no longer believe they just happened. But that there is a divine force backing their existence and formation.
What would you think if a god created life in its simplest form and has since let it evolve to be what it has become?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Genetics prove (yes, PROVE) that the population of homo sapiens, never consisted of only 2 individuals.
What you believe, is demonstrably incorrect.
I understand the argument. It's almost like saying that there were never two gorillas, male and female. Yeah, well -- have a nice evening.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Virtually nothing at this point. Because when I look at the things around me, animal life, plant life, I no longer believe they just happened. But that there is a divine force backing their existence and formation.

So every animal in a species looks alike? You do not see any variations within a species at all?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What would you think if a god created life in its simplest form and has since let it evolve to be what it has become?
If I thought that, I'd have to say the Bible is not true. And while I know there are parts hard to understand in the Bible, I find it reasonably and logically more acceptable than the theory of evolution. That means that I put my faith, yes, faith, in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jesus as outlined in the holy scriptures. And whether people agree with me or not, I am convinced that the preparing of the heavens (including the sun's rays and effect on the earth) involves the making of life on the earth.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
If I thought that, I'd have to say the Bible is not true. And while I know there are parts hard to understand in the Bible, I find it reasonably and logically more acceptable than the theory of evolution. That means that I put my faith, yes, faith, in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jesus as outlined in the holy scriptures. And whether people agree with me or not, I am convinced that the preparing of the heavens (including the sun's rays and effect on the earth) involves the making of life on the earth.
If you believe all humans descended from Adam and Eve.... Have you ever gave thought to the amount of incest that had to occur to populate the earth from just one male and one female?

Edit. And im not trying to change what you believe. I'm just pointing out what would have had to happen.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So every animal in a species looks alike? You do not see any variations within a species at all?
You are speaking of differences of things like gorillas and chimpanzees? Again -- I wasn't there -- I see no proof of transfering or movement of DNA going from one distinct form to another -- and I really do think at this point that the Bible is true. Even though, yes, there are parts hard to understand or contestable. I still think and believe that the definite basics of the Bible are overwhelmingly correct. That is right. That includes the formation of the first man and woman, how they were made -- Sometimes I reason that there are no reasons NOT to believe it, despite people's opinions. Many times places mentioned in the Bible were doubted even by scholars, but later archaeology uncovered these places. For instance, the city of Bablylon was never rebuilt, just as the scriptures foretold. Even though I wasn't there. I have come to believe the Bible.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Virtually nothing at this point. Because when I look at the things around me, animal life, plant life, I no longer believe they just happened. But that there is a divine force backing their existence and formation.
So you believe in magic, even though science can walk you through each step of the process and can show you examples.

Nobody believes the multifarious life-forms "just happened." Where did you get this idea?
:) Again -- when I look at animal life, even think about the soil, the sun and its effect on life on earth, no -- I no longer believe these things just happened. The proclamations about evolution no longer impress me, since I believe the reasoning is wrong. No one has seen one form categorically turn into another. In fact, the science itself does not ascertain that since the investigation of the fossils do not show evolution. What they show is age perhaps, and DNA.
You no longer believe these things because you don't understand the mechanisms involved; you don't understand why scientists believe in evolution, or how we know what we know.

We have seen forms change, but, in general, it takes many generations for visible change to occur. It's rarely obvious in a human lifetime.
How do fossils not show gradual change over time?

Major metabolic changes observed over just 11 days:
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If you believe all humans descended from Adam and Eve.... Have you ever gave thought to the amount of incest that had to occur to populate the earth from just one male and one female?

Edit. And im not trying to change what you believe. I'm just pointing out what would have had to happen.
At that time, it wasn't incest. They didn't have children before they sinned. And they were close to perfection, before their sin they did not HAVE to die. As the human population grew, yes, in time restrictions were given by God through Moses as to marrying close relatives. And we also kniow that now (that you mention it), children born of incest are often not in the greatest physical and mental situations.. But when the human population started, humans were closer to perfection, and lived longer. Later on God put restrictions on close marriages. Clearly the genetic composition of Adam and Eve changed once they did what God Almighty told them not to do. .
 

We Never Know

No Slack
At that time, it wasn't incest. They didn't have children before they sinned. And they were close to perfection, before their sin they did not HAVE to die. As the human population grew, yes, in time restrictions were given by God through Moses as to marrying close relatives. And we also kniow that now (that you mention it), children born of incest are often not in the greatest physical and mental situations.. But when the human population started, humans were closer to perfection, and lived longer. Later on God put restrictions on close marriages. Clearly the genetic composition of Adam and Eve changed once they did what God Almighty told them not to do. .
They sinned and were outcasted before they had kids by eating from then tree of knowledge. After they sinned they started having kids. Which after that means incest. Try again.

Can you quote a verse where incest was ok at first but then changed later?
 
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