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More than one God in the OT?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, Let Us make mankind in Our image.
Ecclesiastes 12:1
Remember also your Creators in the days of your youth.
Isaiah 54:5
For your husbands are your Makers, Whose name is Yahweh of armies.

In most Bible translations the singular form is used, but this is not correct, the words "creators, husbands, makers" in the respective verses are plural in Hebrew.
Now some would say that it is "pluralis excellentiae" or "Royal we", but if that were really the case, why don't we see this with the kings in the Bible? I have looked, not one king, Jewish or Gentile, used this kind of speech in the Bible, ..................

I wonder why you added the letter 's' after Creator because the old Hebrew Scriptures (Tanach)do Not have the added 's'.
That I find also stands true for the verse in Isaiah.
As far as the 'let us... ' found at Genesis 1:26 it is God speaking to his first heavenly creation - Revelation 3:14 B
Pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
 
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Teritos

Active Member
I wonder why you added the letter 's' after Creator because the old Hebrew Scriptures do Not have the added 's'.
According to 6 different Bible commentaries, this hebrew word is plural in the respective verses. Don't judge me, judge them. Have you actually studied Hebrew?

The Hebrew is "Creators," plural, implying the plurality of persons, as in Ge 1:26; so Hebrew, "Makers" (Isa 54:5).
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary


For thy Maker is thine husband - Both these words, 'maker' and 'husband,' in the Hebrew are in the plural number.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible

...for thou hast a Husband, namely, thy Maker. The Hebrew has both words in the plural...
Pulpit Commentary

...thy husband is thy Maker: both nouns are in the plural...
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

We have “thy Maker” in the plural
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

The word for Creator is in the plural number.
MacLaren's Expositions
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
According to 6 different Bible commentaries, this hebrew word is plural in the respective verses. Don't judge me, judge them. Have you actually studied Hebrew?...............
I find it is 'men' who make Bible ' commentaries ' about what is written.
It is written In God's Word without the added 's'.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, Let Us make mankind in Our image.

Ecclesiastes 12:1
Remember also your Creators in the days of your youth.

Isaiah 54:5
For your husbands are your Makers, Whose name is Yahweh of armies.


In most Bible translations the singular form is used, but this is not correct, the words "creators, husbands, makers" in the respective verses are plural in Hebrew.

Now some would say that it is "pluralis excellentiae" or "Royal we", but if that were really the case, why don't we see this with the kings in the Bible? I have looked, not one king, Jewish or Gentile, used this kind of speech in the Bible, all kings speak about themselves in the singular.

Am I saying that there is more than one God? No, but I believe the Bible teaches one God who is a unity in himself.

Genesis 1;26 is where the Trinity is mentioned in the Old Testament. What does it mean when God said, “Let Us make man in Our image” (Genesis 1:26)? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What does it mean when God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image’ (Genesis 1:26)?"

Answer:
Genesis 1 details the creation account of the all-knowing, all-powerful, sovereign God. When God reaches His crowning creative act—the formation of human life—His wording changes from the impersonal “let there be” to the deliberate and intimate expression, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” God’s plan for humans included giving them responsibilities on the earth: “And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth” (Genesis 1:26, ESV).

Human beings—both men and women—are made in God’s image (Genesis 1:27; 5:1–3; 9:6; James 3:9). “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us,” says Genesis 1:26 in the NLT. We did not evolve from other lower forms of life. We were created directly by God to represent Him on the earth and have dominion over every other creation in His name (Genesis 1:26–28).

Having God’s image means we are fashioned to resemble and represent God on the earth. Some Christians like to say we are “imagers of God.” Our likeness with God is not a physical resemblance. Instead, God’s likeness denotes our capacity to rule over creation and be in relationship with God and other humans and to exercise reason, intelligence, speech, moral consciousness, creativity, rationality, and choice. Since the beginning of time, God has desired to bless us and enjoy close fellowship with us, and for this reason He made us like Himself.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, Let Us make mankind in Our image.

Ecclesiastes 12:1
Remember also your Creators in the days of your youth.

Isaiah 54:5
For your husbands are your Makers, Whose name is Yahweh of armies.


In most Bible translations the singular form is used, but this is not correct, the words "creators, husbands, makers" in the respective verses are plural in Hebrew.

Now some would say that it is "pluralis excellentiae" or "Royal we", but if that were really the case, why don't we see this with the kings in the Bible? I have looked, not one king, Jewish or Gentile, used this kind of speech in the Bible, all kings speak about themselves in the singular.

Am I saying that there is more than one God? No, but I believe the Bible teaches one God who is a unity in himself.

Monotheism isn't solidified until the middle of Isaiah. El was the most high god in the times the NT was written. There was an assembly of gods, which Yahweh was one. The gods under El were called "sons of god." Yahwists added Yahweh and morphed him and El together. It's interesting to see the Bible go from polytheism to monolatry to monotheism.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
It's well known that ancient Jews were polytheistic. But, one God was more powerful, and jealous. So, if you worship wrong God, or give him any notice, you might incur the wrath of the most powerful God. Hence, the religion changed to monotheism.

Seems like the other gods had better personalities.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
For example, let's take melchizedek. All it says in the OT is this:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.


So how did you get all that other stuff about Melchizedek being associated with Jesus Christ from such skimpy material? Jesus Christ or messiah isn't even mentioned in those 3 verses. But here's what Wiki says about Melchizedek:

Association with the Messiah
The association or identification of Melchizedek with the Messiah predates Christianity, developing in Jewish messianism of the Second Temple period.[citation needed]

A collection of early Gnostic scripts dating on or before the 4th century, discovered in 1945 and known as the Nag Hammadi library, contains a tractate pertaining to Melchizedek. Here it is proposed that Melchizedek is Jesus Christ.[70] Melchizedek, as Jesus Christ, lives, preaches, dies and is resurrected, in a gnostic perspective. The Coming of the Son of God Melchizedek speaks of his return to bring peace, supported by God, and he is a priest-king who dispenses justice.[71]

The association with Christ is made explicit by the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, where Melchizedek the "king of righteousness" and "king of peace" is explicitly associated with the "eternal priesthood" of the Son of God.[72] The Christological interpretation of this Old Testament character being a prefiguration or prototype of the Christ has varied between Christian denominations. The Pelagians saw in Melchizedek merely a man who lived a perfect life.[73]

Typological association of Jesus Christ with Old Testament characters occurs frequently in the New Testament and in later Christian writings; thus, Jesus Christ is also associated with Adam (as the "New Adam") and with Abraham.[74] The bread and wine offered by Abraham to Melchizedek has been interpreted by church fathers including Clement of Alexandria as being a prefiguration of the Eucharist.[75]

As you can see from the bold underline it was the Gnostics who associated Melchizedek with Jesus alothough there had been association in OT times. ---
Wikipedia

All this has no basis in scripture. It's just ideas and beliefs based on nothing.

Depends what you mean by scripture. If only the OT, then very little is written -and one has to consider whether there was even any idea of a Messiah put forth at the time of the writing -that he would become Messiah -similar to how it was not revealed initially that God allowing no flesh, then all flesh to be eaten woukd continue with only some -then eventually none again later. God knows what he declared from the beginning, but reveals it over time -declaring it. first through the prophets, etc.

Though I will look for more indications in the OT only when possible, if a psalm indicates that the priesthood of Melchizedek is everlasting.... and people meticulous about genealogy have no recorded lineage to or from him.... the idea that he is not man as such, but not the most high God, is understandable.

(The following associates him with what Messiah is to DO -but does not use the word..... note that THE Lord speaks to one the psalmist calls MY Lord...

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries)

There would, however, have been ideas, beliefs even at the time of writing which may not have been recorded.

The NT does go into much detail associating Christ with and AS Melchizedek (search ...without beginning of days or end of life -high priest continually -unchanging priesthood, etc.)
 
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