More Wisdom: The Bible or Aesop's Fables?

[themadhair]

That's the purpose of the parables: To make believers wise in the ways of God's kingdom.

And that goal is something I don’t see as wisdom. I thought this was obvious from my previous comment.

To quote wiki (for the sole purpose of getting a definition to work with) – ” Wisdom is an ideal that has been celebrated since antiquity as the knowledge needed to live a good life.”
God(s) and belief/non belief is not needed/relevant to live a good life – which is I why I don’t regard making ” believers wise in the ways of God's kingdom” as a form of wisdom.

Saying that ” believers need to be wise -- and not just wise, but wise in the ways of God” has no connection with wisdom IMO.

Or to put it another way, to compare the wisdom of two sources it is necessary to compare them as imparters of knowledge for how to live a good life. Something like ‘love thy neighbour’ would come under that but something like ‘love the lord your god’ doesn’t IMO.

 

[sojourner]

And that goal is something I don’t see as wisdom. I thought this was obvious from my previous comment.

To quote wiki (for the sole purpose of getting a definition to work with) – ” Wisdom is an ideal that has been celebrated since antiquity as the knowledge needed to live a good life.”
God(s) and belief/non belief is not needed/relevant to live a good life – which is I why I don’t regard making ” believers wise in the ways of God's kingdom” as a form of wisdom.

Saying that ” believers need to be wise -- and not just wise, but wise in the ways of God” has no connection with wisdom IMO.

Or to put it another way, to compare the wisdom of two sources it is necessary to compare them as imparters of knowledge for how to live a good life. Something like ‘love thy neighbour’ would come under that but something like ‘love the lord your god’ doesn’t IMO.

You're not a believer. Since the parables are for believers, it wouldn't make sense for them to work for you as wisdom. Why would you want to take an antihistamine if you have a bacterial infection? That wouldn't be wise, either. But...for those who do have such an infection, an antibiotic might be a really good idea.

"Love thy neighbor" isn't a parable. Not cogent here. However, there is a parable that follows that injunction. When Jesus said that it was a good idea to love your neighbor, someone asked, "Who is my neighbor?" This statement was part and parcel of "conventional wisdom," which said that a good Jew only had to love the laos and not the ethne. There was a boundary drawn between those who were part of God's people and who were not. The parable turns that boundary upside down with the wisdom that the boundary is nonexistent. But that parable doesn't make sense to anyone who doesn't already buy into the cultural distinction between laos and ethne. For those who struggle with the concept of love and how God wants us to love, however, the parable becomes an extremely important piece of wisdom.

I think we have to ask ourselves: "What is necessary for the believer to live a good life?" A good answer might be that the believer live according to the tenets of the faith that directs his/her life. In that case, the parable in question helps immensely.

 

[themadhair]

You're not a believer. Since the parables are for believers, it wouldn't make sense for them to work for you as wisdom.

I’ve gotten into so many arguments with christians who have argued that the bible is a source of morality that I’m willing to bet there are christians who would disagree with you claim that the bible is solely “for believers”. I’m also willing to bet that the claim made by many christians, and likely countless times on this site, of the bible being a source for morality was the inspiration for the OP starting this thread (I’ll let the OP confirm/deny that one).

I swear if I took the line you are advocating here in a future debate it would be dismissed by some christians. Am I wrong on that?

 

[sojourner]

I’ve gotten into so many arguments with christians who have argued that the bible is a source of morality that I’m willing to bet there are christians who would disagree with you claim that the bible is solely “for believers”. I’m also willing to bet that the claim made by many christians, and likely countless times on this site, of the bible being a source for morality was the inspiration for the OP starting this thread (I’ll let the OP confirm/deny that one).

I swear if I took the line you are advocating here in a future debate it would be dismissed by some christians. Am I wrong on that?

The Bible is far from moral. Most theologians and Biblical scholars worth their salt would never say that the Bible is a moral document. I can't help what some believe.

And, it is a fact that the scriptures were written for believers to hear and read. The use of scriptures for evangelism is a later paradigm. Since it is the original intent we're concerned with, the point is moot.

No, sadly you're not wrong. But they are! happily, since it's the truth we're after, and not wishful thinking, what "they" believe doesn't matter to this debate.

 

[themadhair]

The Bible is far from moral. Most theologians and Biblical scholars worth their salt would never say that the Bible is a moral document. I can't help what some believe.

*puts you on speeddial for the next time this debate happens*

 

[sojourner]

*puts you on speeddial for the next time this debate happens*

I wanna be #1...

 

[Storm]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess the disconnect is that this thread is specifically about people talking about how useful the bible is as a tool for daily life - that it contains wisdom for every situation. I'm comparing the bible to Aesop's Fables based on this metric.

I apologize if I wasn't clear in the OP.

Wow, I did not pick up on that at all.

I would say the fables are more fundamental and universally applicable. Like arithmetic, as opposed to advanced calculus.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Wow, I did not pick up on that at all.

I would say the fables are more fundamental and universally applicable. Like arithmetic, as opposed to advanced calculus.

So, the bible is advanced calculus for daily life?

 

[Storm]

So, the bible is advanced calculus for daily life?

Don't push the comparison too far.

I'm not sure how relevant the Bible is for day-to-day stuff.

 

[McBell]

The golden rule was around in many cultures, really nothing original about it in Christianity. Some of the Christian bible's teachings are suspect at best.

I much prefer the platinum rule.
But it isn't in the Bible.
Nor is it in Aesop's Fables.
So I guess I am off-topic....