Mormon Fundamentalism: Blacks & the Priesthood

[Sthatting]

In the past (before the 1970s), blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Today, that's hardly the case. While the Mormon Church of Salt Lake City, Utah may allow blacks into the priesthood, early latter-day prophets, in my belief, had no intention of that happening. However, that does not mean punishment, harassment, or murder should follow them everywhere they should go.

"And the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." -Moses 5:40

"And I, the Lord, said unto him, Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold; and I, the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." -Genesis 5:25 (JST)

"If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech shall be seventy and sevenfold. 35 For, Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan." -Genesis 5:34-35

"And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among men." -Moses 7:22

Separation of the descendants of Cain is Biblical. Early Latter-day Saint leaders have this to say:

Blacks & the Priesthood
5th February 1852
Salt Lake City, Utah

The Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the Priesthood nor his seed, until the last of the posterity of Abel had received the Priesthood, until the redemption of the earth. If there never was a prophet, or apostle of Jesus Christ spoke it before, I tell you, this people that are commonly called Negroes are the children of old Cain. I know they are, I know that they cannot bear rule in the Priesthood, for the curse on them was to remain upon them, until the residue of the posterity of Michael and his wife receive the blessings, the seed of Cain would have received had they not been cursed; and hold the keys of the Priesthood, until the times of the restitution shall come, and the curse be wiped off from the earth, and from Michael's seed. Then Cain's seed will be had in remembrance, and the time come when that curse should be wiped off.

[...] thus saith the Eternal I am, what I am, I take it off at my pleasure, and not one particle of power can that posterity of Cain have, until the time comes that says he will have it taken away.
... Let this Church which is called the Kingdom of God on the Earth; we will summons the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Council, the Bishopric, and all the Elders of Israel, suppose we summons them to appear here, and here declare that it is right to mingle our seed with the black race of Cain, that they shall come in with us and be partakers with us of all blessings God has given to us. On that very hour and day we should do so, the Priesthood is teken from this Church and Kingdom, and God leaves us to our fate."

- Brigham Young, Revelation regarding blacks and the priesthood

Brigham Young Addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, under date,
LDS Church Historical Dept., Salt Lake City.
Teachings of President Brigham Young, p. 42-43, 46
​

However, blacks were still allowed to join the church. This is represented in the Church creed of the United Latter-day Church of Jesus Christ Intl.

7.We believe all are welcome to participate in the Lord's work whatever race, ethnicity, or background

. - Article 7 of 20 of the Creed for the United Latter-day Church Intl./quote]

It is also scripturally based in the ULDC.

Apostasies are rising up, as are false prophets making their throne of white and gold here on the earth, but they shall not inherit the Celestial Kingdom.
5 See that that which is spoken of is carried through, that ye might strengthen thyself. 6 Ye shall follow my direction and my design for thee. Yea, I am a jealous god. 7 Build for me, a temple, that those who shalt follow Me might fulfill all righteousness as was originally inteded. 8 Do not qustion again and again on the same subject. 9 Doing so will mark a temporary end to My faithful guidance. This will open up heedence to devils of the world. 10 They have allowed the accursed (Negro race) to enter into my covenant, thus saith the Lord, and therfore I will destroy it and then renew it, for I am highly displeased. Amen.

- D&C 145:4-10​

This is a little about why blacks cannot (or shouldn't) hold the priesthood in any church where the restored true priesthood is present.

 

[Comprehend]

Do you believe in continuing revelation?

 

[madhatter85]

In the past (before the 1970s), blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Today, that's hardly the case. While the Mormon Church of Salt Lake City, Utah may allow blacks into the priesthood, early latter-day prophets, in my belief, had no intention of that happening. However, that does not mean punishment, harassment, or murder should follow them everywhere they should go.

"And the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." -Moses 5:40

"And I, the Lord, said unto him, Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold; and I, the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." -Genesis 5:25 (JST)

"If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech shall be seventy and sevenfold. 35 For, Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan." -Genesis 5:34-35

"And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among men." -Moses 7:22

Separation of the descendants of Cain is Biblical. Early Latter-day Saint leaders have this to say:

However, blacks were still allowed to join the church. This is represented in the Church creed of the United Latter-day Church of Jesus Christ Intl.​

7.We believe all are welcome to participate in the Lord's work whatever race, ethnicity, or background

. - Article 7 of 20 of the Creed for the United Latter-day Church Intl.[/quote]

It is also scripturally based in the ULDC.​

This is a little about why blacks cannot (or shouldn't) hold the priesthood in any church where the restored true priesthood is present.​

This idea of not allowing blacks to hold the priesthood is in relation to the idea of "Original Sin" seeing as the Sins of the father affect the Son. This is in Ezekiel 18:

19 ¶ Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20 The soul that asinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bbear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the crighteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him

Also, what comprehend said about progressive revelation. It is shown in the bible there is such a thing, the Law of Moses (ey for an eye, ect...) then Jesus came and gave the higher law of "Turn the Other Cheek" and Love thy Nieghbor.

 

[Polaris]

You're contradicting yourself here:

While the Mormon Church of Salt Lake City, Utah may allow blacks into the priesthood, early latter-day prophets, in my belief, had no intention of that happening.

"they cannot bear rule in the Priesthood... until the residue of the posterity of Michael and his wife receive the blessings... until the times of the restitution shall come"

Brigham clearly taught that the time would come when all worthy men would bear the priesthood. That time came by revelation in 1978.

 

[Comprehend]

You're contradicting yourself here:



Brigham clearly taught that the time would come when all worthy men would bear the priesthood. That time came by revelation in 1978.

Good point.

Secondly, it is documented that a number of black men DID recieve the priesthood during the time of Joseph Smith so I don't know how one could argue that it was never intended.

 

[madhatter85]

That is true.

BlackLDS.org :: Black History Timeline

1832: Elijah Abel Baptized by Ezekiel Roberts
Elijah goes on to become the first black man to be given the priesthood in the LDS Church.

1836: Elijah Abel Ordained an Elder
In March of 1836, Elijah Abel is given the priesthood and ordained to the office of Elder. This is reportedly done by Joseph Smith himself.

1836: Elijah Abel Ordained a Seventy
In December of 1836 Elijah is ordained a Seventy by Zebedee Coltrin. He also becomes a "duly licensed minister of the Gospel" for missionary work in Ohio. (Minutes of the Seventies Journal, December 20, 1836)

1836: Nondiscriminatory Rules Published for Governing the Temple in Kirtland
The rules provided for "old or young, rich or poor, male or female, bond or free, black or white, believer or unbeliever..." (History of the Church 2: 368-69)

1838: Sister Eunice Kinney Taught and Baptized by Elijah Abel
A letter, dated 1891, describes her conversion experience in 1838.

1843: Joseph Smith Makes Statements about Blacks
Blacks have souls (an item that others didn't necessarily believe) and that they are a product of their environment. Given an equal environment they would be on the same level as whites.

1844: Walker Lewis Ordained an Elder
There are two conflicting accounts of the ordination of Lewis, a black man in Lowell, MA. According to a letter from William Appleby to Brigham Young dated June 2, 1847, William Smith, brother to Joseph Smith, ordains him, but according to Jane Elizabeth James written Feb. 7, 1890, Parley P. Pratt ordains him.

1846: William McCary Baptized and Ordained by Apostle Orson Hyde
This baptism and ordination of William, a black man, is reported in the Voree Herald, October 1846.

1847: Several Blacks Arrive in Utah
It is reported that Green Flake comes in with Brigham Young in the first company of Saints to arrive.

 

[Comprehend]

Was Ham a descendant of Cain?

 

[silvermoon383]

No, he was Noah's son. Though I have heard that Ham's wife was a descendant of Cain, but I don't have anything to back that up.

 

[Comprehend]

No, he was Noah's son. Though I have heard that Ham's wife was a descendant of Cain, but I don't have anything to back that up.

yeah, I meant to ask if Ham's wife was a descendant. sorry.

 

[Sthatting]

Do you believe in continuing revelation?

Yes, but it shouldn't contradict outright statements made less than 300 years ago.

 

[Comprehend]

Yes, but it shouldn't contradict outright statements made less than 300 years ago.

So you believe there is a time limit?

What is the time limit? 500, 1000 years?

 

[Sthatting]

Good point.

Secondly, it is documented that a number of black men DID recieve the priesthood during the time of Joseph Smith so I don't know how one could argue that it was never intended.

"Saturday, May 31st, 1879, at the house of President Abraham O. Smoot, Provo City, Utah, Utah County, at 5 O'Clock p.m.

And when we got to Kirtland, we both went to Brother Joseph's office together to make our returns, and Brother Green was as good as his word and reported to Brother Joseph that I said that the Negro could not hold the Priesthood. Brother Joseph kind of dropped his head and rested it on his hand for a minute, and then said, "Brother Zebedee is right, for the Spirit of the Lord saith the Negro has no right nor cannot hold the Priesthood." He made no reference to Scripture at all, but such was his decision. I don't recollect ever having any conversation with him afterwards on this subject. But I have heard him say in public that no person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood." -Journal of L. John Nuttall 1:290-93

"A black skin has ever been a curse that has followd an apostate of the holy Priesthood." -Joseph Smith, Times & Seasons 6:857

"President George Q. Cannon remarked that the prophet [Joseph] taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood, nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain's offspring." 22 Aug 1895, Minutes of Meeting of General Authorities. The Way to Perfection (1931), Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 110

Considering that Abel was killed by Cain before he had any children, then his seed can only come forward during the Millennium, so Joseph is saying that Negro's can't receive the Priesthood until that time.

"President Young held to the doctrine that no man tainted with Negro blood was eligible to have the Priesthood; that President Taylor held to the same doctrine, claiming to have been taught it by the Prophet Joseph Smith." -George Q. Cannon, Council Minutes, 22 Aug 1900

"It is true that the Negro race is barred from holding the Priesthood, and this has always been the case. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught this doctrine." -Joseph F. Smith, Improvement Era 27:564 (1924)

"The Prophet Joseph Smith was commanded by God to withdraw the Priesthood from Elijah Abel, and revoke the ordination. ... Although there is no official Church record as to the revocation, Elijah Abel affirmed the fact to my father, Thomas A. Shreeve, when both were living in the Salt Lake 10th Ward, during 1872-77. At the time, Brother Abel told young Thomas, who baptised Abel's grandchildren that the Prophet Joseph 'came to him with tears in his eyes one day, and told him that he had been commanded by the Lord to withdraw the holy Priesthood from him.'" -Caleb A. Shreeve, Sr., Salt Lake Tribune, "Forum", 26 Oct 1970

"Brother Coltrin further said Brother Abel was ordained a Seventy ... and when the Prophet learned of his lineage he was dropped from the Quorum, and another was put in his place." -Meeting, 31 May 1879, as related by Willian E. Berrett, Mormonism and the Negro

"President [George Q.] Cannon remarked upon this subject, as he said, he had a prior occasion when this subject was under consideration, that he had understood that the Prophet Joseph [Smith] had said during this lifetime, that there would be a great wrong perpetrated if the seed of Cain were allowed to have the Priesthood before Abel should have posterity to receive it, and this curse therefore was to remain upon the seed of Cain until the time that Abel should have posterity. He understood that the time could not come until Abel should beget spirits in the eternal worlds and those spirits could obtain tabernacles." -Council Meeting, March 11, 1900, George Albert Smith Papers, Manuscripts Division, Marriott Library, University of Utah

 

[Sthatting]

Was Ham a descendant of Cain?

From my understanding, Ham's wife was.

 

[Comprehend]

From my understanding, Ham's wife was.

What do you base that understanding on?

 

[Comprehend]

"Saturday, May 31st, 1879, at the house of President Abraham O. Smoot, Provo City, Utah, Utah County, at 5 O'Clock p.m.

And when we got to Kirtland, we both went to Brother Joseph's office together to make our returns, and Brother Green was as good as his word and reported to Brother Joseph that I said that the Negro could not hold the Priesthood. Brother Joseph kind of dropped his head and rested it on his hand for a minute, and then said, "Brother Zebedee is right, for the Spirit of the Lord saith the Negro has no right nor cannot hold the Priesthood." He made no reference to Scripture at all, but such was his decision. I don't recollect ever having any conversation with him afterwards on this subject. But I have heard him say in public that no person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood." -Journal of L. John Nuttall 1:290-93

"A black skin has ever been a curse that has followd an apostate of the holy Priesthood." -Joseph Smith, Times & Seasons 6:857

"President George Q. Cannon remarked that the prophet [Joseph] taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood, nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain's offspring." 22 Aug 1895, Minutes of Meeting of General Authorities. The Way to Perfection (1931), Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 110

Considering that Abel was killed by Cain before he had any children, then his seed can only come forward during the Millennium, so Joseph is saying that Negro's can't receive the Priesthood until that time.

"President Young held to the doctrine that no man tainted with Negro blood was eligible to have the Priesthood; that President Taylor held to the same doctrine, claiming to have been taught it by the Prophet Joseph Smith." -George Q. Cannon, Council Minutes, 22 Aug 1900

"It is true that the Negro race is barred from holding the Priesthood, and this has always been the case. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught this doctrine." -Joseph F. Smith, Improvement Era 27:564 (1924)

"The Prophet Joseph Smith was commanded by God to withdraw the Priesthood from Elijah Abel, and revoke the ordination. ... Although there is no official Church record as to the revocation, Elijah Abel affirmed the fact to my father, Thomas A. Shreeve, when both were living in the Salt Lake 10th Ward, during 1872-77. At the time, Brother Abel told young Thomas, who baptised Abel's grandchildren that the Prophet Joseph 'came to him with tears in his eyes one day, and told him that he had been commanded by the Lord to withdraw the holy Priesthood from him.'" -Caleb A. Shreeve, Sr., Salt Lake Tribune, "Forum", 26 Oct 1970

"Brother Coltrin further said Brother Abel was ordained a Seventy ... and when the Prophet learned of his lineage he was dropped from the Quorum, and another was put in his place." -Meeting, 31 May 1879, as related by Willian E. Berrett, Mormonism and the Negro

"President [George Q.] Cannon remarked upon this subject, as he said, he had a prior occasion when this subject was under consideration, that he had understood that the Prophet Joseph [Smith] had said during this lifetime, that there would be a great wrong perpetrated if the seed of Cain were allowed to have the Priesthood before Abel should have posterity to receive it, and this curse therefore was to remain upon the seed of Cain until the time that Abel should have posterity. He understood that the time could not come until Abel should beget spirits in the eternal worlds and those spirits could obtain tabernacles." -Council Meeting, March 11, 1900, George Albert Smith Papers, Manuscripts Division, Marriott Library, University of Utah

Was that supposed to be a response to my assertion?

Are you saying that black men did not recieve the priesthood during the time of Joseph Smith?

 

[Sthatting]

You're contradicting yourself here:

Brigham clearly taught that the time would come when all worthy men would bear the priesthood. That time came by revelation in 1978.

Incorrect. The time of restitution will be during the Millennium as Brigham Young plainly taught.

"When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity." -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 2:142-43, 03 Dec 1854

"... Were the children of God to mingle their seed with the seed of Cain it would not only bring the curse of being deprived of the power of the priesthood upon themselves but they entail it upon their children after them, and they cannot get rid of it." -Brigham Young Addresses 2:77, 5 Jan 1852

"And if he (a Canaanite) continues faithful until Abel's race is satisfied with his blessings, then may the race of Cain receive a fullness of the priesthood.
...
The Blessings which belonged to Abel, descended to his posterity; and until the blessings of Abel's birthright are fully received, secured, and realized, by his (Abel's) descendants, Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them." -Brigham Young, Deseret News, 3 Apr 1852

 

[Sthatting]

Was that supposed to be a response to my assertion?

Are you saying that black men did not recieve the priesthood during the time of Joseph Smith?

Any blacks that received the priesthood under Joseph Smith was revoked.

"The Prophet Joseph Smith was commanded by God to withdraw the Priesthood from Elijah Abel, and revoke the ordination. ... Although there is no official Church record as to the revocation, Elijah Abel affirmed the fact to my father, Thomas A. Shreeve, when both were living in the Salt Lake 10th Ward, during 1872-77. At the time, Brother Abel told young Thomas, who baptised Abel's grandchildren that the Prophet Joseph 'came to him with tears in his eyes one day, and told him that he had been commanded by the Lord to withdraw the holy Priesthood from him.'" -Caleb A. Shreeve, Sr., Salt Lake Tribune, "Forum", 26 Oct 1970

"Brother Coltrin further said Brother Abel was ordained a Seventy ... and when the Prophet learned of his lineage he was dropped from the Quorum, and another was put in his place." -Meeting, 31 May 1879, as related by Willian E. Berrett, Mormonism and the Negro

 

[Sthatting]

What do you base that understanding on?

The teachings of John Taylor.

"After the flood, we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God." John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 22:304

 

[Sthatting]

So you believe there is a time limit?

What is the time limit? 500, 1000 years?

It's the general idea. A church shouldn't change on a whim from what was originally laid out at its founding. What happened in 1978 brings two different options of how to view things:

1. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc. were not prophets of God, or
2. Spencer W. Kimball was not a true prophet.

 

[Sthatting]

This idea of not allowing blacks to hold the priesthood is in relation to the idea of "Original Sin" seeing as the Sins of the father affect the Son. This is in Ezekiel 18:

Also, what comprehend said about progressive revelation. It is shown in the bible there is such a thing, the Law of Moses (ey for an eye, ect...) then Jesus came and gave the higher law of "Turn the Other Cheek" and Love thy Nieghbor.

How does this refer to blacks and the priesthood? How would explain Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and John Taylor's teachings of NOT allowing blacks to hold the priesthood?