Mormonism and Racial Supremacy

[Katzpur]

********* MOD POST **********

Just a friendly reminder folks, as this can become a heated topic. Read this rule very carefully and consider what you post.

Shall we open this up to bets? Ten to one, this thread gets closed within 24 hours. (Not that that's what I'd like to see, just what I'm expecting to see.)

 

[Bishka]

. So what if it's not doctrine, if this man is indeed an elder then he should be removed from this position. If not then it sends the message that the entire LDS faith agrees with his interpretation. Just as all of you LDS are here now arguing against this shows that the LDS do not condone this elder.

It was one thing this man said. So if the president of the USA says something one person does not agree with we should remove the president?

That's a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

Not it does not send that message that we all agree with a statement he made. You will find that most of the LDS people disagree with it.

Besides, this was stated MANY years ago -- 20+ from my understanding. It's over and done with and just recently the President and Prophet of the Church held a fireside to dicuss and to tell us all that we treat all people, regardless of race, class, religion like our brothers and sisters.

I think we get it.

 

[Bishka]

Shall we open this up to bets? Ten to one, this thread gets closed within 24 hours. (Not that that's what I'd like to see, just what I'm expecting to see.)

And ten to one that I'll be the one who causes it.

 

[Bishka]

Just one thing to everyone.

Do we see the date on that article?

August 27, 1954. That was more then 50 years ago. Do you think our ideas haven't changed since then?

Oh, I almost forgot -- http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/

This might be of interest to some people. I'd check it out if I were you.

 

[Katzpur]

No really, how do the modern LDS folk interpret the above passages? I'm not really up on my Mormonisms...but from a layman's perspective, the black skin seems to be a representation of a curse. Is this meant to imply that people with darker skin are somewhat worse than the white folk (since they bear a "mark"), or that they're uglier (so that "they might not be enticing unto [someone's] people")?

I'll comment on this tomorrow. I want to take some time with my answer. I hope that's okay.

I know the Church of LDS is not a racist institution, but it may be worth mentioning that the Warren Jeffs' FLDS is highly racist...might they be drawing a racist interpretation from the Book of Mormon as well, and if so is this viewpoint justified based on the original text?

Someone like Jeffs doesn't even need an excuse to be racist. You know what I mean? He could be getting his ideas from the Book of Mormon, but if he is, he's missing the whole point of the book, which is clearly stated in 2 Nephi 26:33.

"He inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

1836: In March, Elijah Abel, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
and then this:
1836: In December, Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Seventy.

alot of mis conceptions arose after the Mardom of the Prophet Joseph Smith... if Brother Joseph was still alive i know that the trasgression of the interpitation would of be avoided... Elijah was one of a few Afercan americans ordanded as elders durning that time and if i remember right most of the other churchs would not even adment afercan americans into the presthood of there own church... people are never perfect, but the gosple that is in The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saint is... if it is not in the new testament, old testament, book of mormon, docrein and covenits, preal of great price... then it is not docren... in it is in these books menchund then it is...

this is a great site i found i didn't know it exstied...
LDS black history

 

[Bishka]

I thought I would research this a little more, and here is what I came up with

The promises and challenges of a new millennium remind us of the continuing urgency for the human family to accept and live the Apostle Paul’s prescient pronouncement that all men and women everywhere are God’s beloved children.............

In modern times, the First Presidency declared, “Our message … is one of special love and concern for the eternal welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we are the sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father” (First Presidency statement, 15 Feb. 1978)..........


President Spencer W. Kimball stated the Church’s position well: “We do wish that there would be no racial prejudice. … Racial prejudice is of the devil. … There is no place for it in the gospel of Jesus Christ” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 236–37)..........


Alexander B. Morrison, “No More Strangers,” Ensign, Sept. 2000, 16

The rest of that article is found here: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway....sign september 2000.htm/no more strangers.htm

That was written in the Ensign -- a worldwide LDS Church magazine distrubted a plethora of the LDS memebers in September 2000 -- I little more recent then the article that was part of the OP.

 

[Katzpur]

I've been defending your religion but why should I continue to do so when I'm just going to be attacked by you?

I recognized that, Super Universe, and fruballed you for it. Thanks.

 

[Bishka]

I recognized that, Super Universe, and fruballed you for it. Thanks. [/size]

And Super Universe, I must apologize - my comments were wrong. I guess I'm seeing things wrong - Kathryn explained over IM to me.

I'm sorry -- I won't attack you anymore.:sorry1:

 

[Bishka]

This was in the New Era a magzine for teenagers in July of 1992

 

[Katzpur]

This was in the New Era a magzine for teenagers in July of 1992

A picture is worth a thousand words. But I love the caption, too. Just for those who might otherwise miss it:

"God created the races... but not racism. We are all children of the same Father. Violence and hatred have no place in His family."

(I'm pretty sure that's a quote from President Gordon B. Hinckley -- current President of our Church.)

 

[Bishka]

I'd also like to point out a main by the name of Elijah Abel. Elijah was born in 1810 and died in 1884.


This is a picture of Elijah:

The following is from a webpage I just found

"....One of the first Seventies of the LDS Church was a Black Mormon by the name of Elijah Abel (1810-1884). Because of his great faith, he was ordained to the Priesthood and became a member of the Third Quorum of Seventy; a priesthood-office just under Apostle. He was a personal friend to the Prophet Joseph Smith, and helped to rescue him from mobs in Missouri bent upon taking his life. Elijah Abel's son Enoch and grandson Elijah were also ordained to various offices in the Priesthood. Elijah Abel died in Salt Lake City, Utah, at the age of 74; just after having served a mission for the Church in Canada and Cincinnati, Ohio."

 

[Bishka]

Here is another page....http://www.blacklds.org/

This has statements by the famous singer Gladys Knight (who is LDS)

 

[Bishka]

You must remember the some of the pages I have given are not 'official', but they do present what I would say 90-95% of the LDS Church memebers believe.

 

[Ryan2065]

The book "Mormon Doctrine" is one man's interpretation of LDS doctrine. The book itself is not part of the LDS canon.

Ah, thanks... It confused me! =)

 

[Bishka]

Ah, thanks... It confused me! =)

Hey Ryan, sorry If I offended you.

And everybody else.

This is just really frustrating, annoying, and everything else.

It's just that I was feeling that I was having defend myself against attacks of questions I've already answered.

Sorry about that guys.:sorry1:

 

[HopefulNikki]

Mark E. Petersen was voicing his own opinion and was not stating LDS doctrine.

Interesting...if Mr. Peterson was just voicing his own personalized opinion, then why in the world would he say, "At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse -- as a punishment and as a sign to all others."

Is he just lying here? Where did he get the idea that the Lord Himself taught these things?

 

[HopefulNikki]

I have some good information on this topic and would be happy to share it. Unfortunately, it's not online and I'm at work right now, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

While I'd love to hear it, I can't help but expect that it will be some sort of "spiritual" interpretation of "dark skin"...which just makes me laugh. You guys are insistent that some ambiguous phrase like "image of God" in Genesis is literal, physical similarity, but when it comes to the BoM talking about dark skin, which for the first 100+ years of their existence Mormons took literally (even if it wasn't "official"), you guys suddenly adhere to spiritualized interpretation.

 

[nutshell]

Interesting...if he was only stating some personal theory of his own, then why would he say, "At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse -- as a punishment and as a sign to all others."
Is he just lying here? Where did he get the idea that the "definite word of the Lord Himself" taught these doctrines?

That doesn't change the fact that it's his personal interpretation. Also, people are confusing the event in the Book of Mormon with the lie that blacks get their dark skin from the pre-existance.

 

[nutshell]

While I'd love to hear it, I can't help but expect that it will be some sort of "spiritual" interpretation of "dark skin"...which just makes me laugh. You guys are insistent that some ambiguous phrase like "image of God" in Genesis is literal, physical similarity, but when it comes to the BoM talking about dark skin, which for the first 100+ years of their existence Mormons took literally (even if it wasn't "official"), you guys suddenly adhere to spiritualized interpretation.

I don't know if it's physical or not.