Morning-After Pill Goes Over the Counter

[dawny0826]

What difference does it make?

Because you're presenting an argument that isn't fully based on fact.

1 out of 6 women are victims of rape and this is an alarming, uncomfortable statistic.

According to medical reports, per the link that you provided, the incident of pregnancy, resulting from a one-time rape incident was 5%. This doesn't include unaccounted for pregnancies, particulary within younger age groups.

Here's the problem. 44% of the 15% of American females who are reportedly raped are youth and under the age of 18.

If 44% of rape/abuse victims are going to their neighborhood pharmacy for emergency contraception as opposed to a doctor, the abuse isn't being addressed.

You only have a 72 hour window to take emergency contraception, for it to be effective and the further away from the incident you go, the less effective the conraception is.

I'm going to stand by what statistics are suggesting. For one, statistics aren't suggesting that emergency contraception is going to impact these abused girls to the extent that you're projecting, as approximately 5% would be impacted by pregnancy to begin with.

Two, by removing any sort of adult intervention from the process, you don't address the abusive situation. A pregnancy may be prevented, but the situation itself is swept under a rug and abusive cycles will continue.

Girls need to be empowered to go to someone they trust. We need to get real. If you think these young girls are going to purchase emergency contraception, which I don't, why can't they talk to a pharmacist about the abuse?

Emergency contraception would likely be administered in a clinical setting if a girl went to law enforcement and reported rape, anyway.

 

[dawny0826]

What "proper authorities?"
Talk about big government, we'd need an army of inspectors and massive orphanages everywhere to house all the kids taken from their "incompetent" parents. How is an inner city ghetto or rural Appalachian community going to respond if 95% of their children are taken away by force? You'd have civil war!

A 15 year old gets herself in trouble messing around with her boyfriend. She could open up a huge can of worms by going to her parents, give them the final say in the affair, endanger her relationship with her parents, risk ridicule and ostracism from her friends and a life of miserable poverty should the parents insist she keep the baby.

Or she could simply make the problem go away -- simply, quickly and cheaply, and chalk it up to experience.

We're talking about rape victims, primarily. And in those cases, going to the proper authorities, would be more effective than taking care of the situation yourself and sweeping it under the rug.

I am a proponent of Emergency Contraception and it won't devastate me if laws are changed so that these girls can buy contraception. However, I'm also a realist, as a parent. I would be highly ****** off with the system and with my child if such a decision was made without my knowing. I value that I would have to be part of this process, now.

This is what real life is like when you're parenting and you care to be a good parent. You're responsible for them. If my daughter took emergency contraception at 12 years old and then happened to experience side effects such as an allergic reaction or heavy bleeding that was alarming and required medical attention. Who is she going to turn to? Who is responsible for her care?

Her parents! She's a minor.

Again, I know that Emergency Contraception yields few side effects, but there are practical reasons for parents to be involved or at least a trusted adult.

 

[Titanic]

Most of you agree that this is okay, I agree as well BUT let us get real serious for just a sec. If you had a 12 year old daughter and she came up to you and said guess what mommy or daddy! I am going to have sex and there is nothing you can do about it! It is okay too cause i got plan b just in case so i will be fine! okay i am going to go have sex now upstairs with my boyfriend you knew nothing about! If you hear anything it will just be us having sex up there! okay see you later! Now would you be okay

 

[Titanic]

with that really? your 12 year old having sex cause most of you said plan b should be given to girls under 14.

 

[Titanic]

I guess i should take back what i said i do not agree, not when they are that young.

 

[Alceste]

Because you're presenting an argument that isn't fully based on fact.

1 out of 6 women are victims of rape and this is an alarming, uncomfortable statistic.

According to medical reports, per the link that you provided, the incident of pregnancy, resulting from a one-time rape incident was 5%. This doesn't include unaccounted for pregnancies, particulary within younger age groups.

Here's the problem. 44% of the 15% of American females who are reportedly raped are youth and under the age of 18.

If 44% of rape/abuse victims are going to their neighborhood pharmacy for emergency contraception as opposed to a doctor, the abuse isn't being addressed.

You only have a 72 hour window to take emergency contraception, for it to be effective and the further away from the incident you go, the less effective the conraception is.

I'm going to stand by what statistics are suggesting. For one, statistics aren't suggesting that emergency contraception is going to impact these abused girls to the extent that you're projecting, as approximately 5% would be impacted by pregnancy to begin with.

Two, by removing any sort of adult intervention from the process, you don't address the abusive situation. A pregnancy may be prevented, but the situation itself is swept under a rug and abusive cycles will continue.

Girls need to be empowered to go to someone they trust. We need to get real. If you think these young girls are going to purchase emergency contraception, which I don't, why can't they talk to a pharmacist about the abuse?

Emergency contraception would likely be administered in a clinical setting if a girl went to law enforcement and reported rape, anyway.

What I'm saying is that it IS abusive to erect complicated and intimidating barriers in front of young girls who have a very simple but very pressing and immediate need to buy a morning after pill.

How would this work, practically, in your view?

I need a morning after pill.

Ok, can I see some ID? Oh, sorry, I'm going to have to call the police. Wait here.

I just can't see this situation being beneficial to the interests of the child. There are other ways to combat abuse without adding to the psychological trauma. If figuring out exactly who she had sex with and how and when is your first priority, you've got your priorities wrong. Just give her the pill.

 

[Alceste]

I guess i should take back what i said i do not agree, not when they are that young.

Nobody thinks 12 year old girls should be having sex. We simply acknowledge that some 12 year old girls are having sex, or are victims of rape.

You'd prevent a 12 year old rape victim from being able to choose not to become pregnant from the attack?

 

[dawny0826]

What I'm saying is that it IS abusive to erect complicated and intimidating barriers in front of young girls who have a very simple but very pressing and immediate need to buy a morning after pill.

How would this work, practically, in your view?

I need a morning after pill.

Ok, can I see some ID? Oh, sorry, I'm going to have to call the police. Wait here.

I just can't see this situation being beneficial to the interests of the child. There are other ways to combat abuse without adding to the psychological trauma. If figuring out exactly who she had sex with and how and when is your first priority, you've got your priorities wrong. Just give her the pill.

Again, the girls that you're so adamently trying to make this available to, without any sort of adult interference, aren't the girls, statistically, that are going to be purchasing emergency contraception.

The underage girls that are going to have the gumption to do this on their own aren't the girls that were raped and abused.

Legally, I know that in the US, what you're requesting isn't going to happen. However...

A simple approach to this would be to require those under age to purchase from the pharmacy counter, so that the pharmacist can answer questions, if the youth has them and provide, without asking questions, information on local community resources that might be helpful, if youth suspect pregnancy, who they can turn to if counseling and support is required and just as important...WHAT TO DO if they are victims of rape or abuse.

Non-intrusive, but, ensures that youth are provided valuable information, which could come in the form of a pamphlet with phone numbers and web addresses.

I don't think that this is a better alternative, personally, but, this is a practical and easy way to get information into the hands of those who are underage, who need to report an abusive situation or need a community resource to an organization that they can confidentially discuss contraception options with.

 

[Titanic]

Nobody thinks 12 year old girls should be having sex. We simply acknowledge that some 12 year old girls are having sex, or are victims of rape.

You'd prevent a 12 year old rape victim from being able to choose not to become pregnant from the attack?

No not in that case but the parents should do a better job of making sure their kids are safe then they would not need plan b in the first place! all of this is simply bad parenting.

 

[dawny0826]

No not in that case but the parents should do a better job of making sure their kids are safe then they would not need plan b in the first place! all of this is simply bad parenting.

I have to gree. Although, there does come a point in a youth's life, where they do begin to make decisions on their own and the best upbringing can yield a youth who makes crappy decisions.

This is part of growing and learning. But, the type of relationship that parents have with their youth, makes a world of difference.

I want my children to be able to come to me, no matter what the problem, so that we can tackle issues together. Unfortunately, there are too many kids who have crappy parents or have great parents, but, make really bad decisions.

They still need guidance and support, regardless.

 

[Alceste]

Again, the girls that you're so adamently trying to make this available to, without any sort of adult interference, aren't the girls, statistically, that are going to be purchasing emergency contraception.

The underage girls that are going to have the gumption to do this on their own aren't the girls that were raped and abused.

Legally, I know that in the US, what you're requesting isn't going to happen. However...

A simple approach to this would be to require those under age to purchase from the pharmacy counter, so that the pharmacist can answer questions, if the youth has them and provide, without asking questions, information on local community resources that might be helpful, if youth suspect pregnancy, who they can turn to if counseling and support is required and just as important...WHAT TO DO if they are victims of rape or abuse.

Non-intrusive, but, ensures that youth are provided valuable information, which could come in the form of a pamphlet with phone numbers and web addresses.

I don't think that this is a better alternative, personally, but, this is a practical and easy way to get information into the hands of those who are underage, who need to report an abusive situation or need a community resource to an organization that they can confidentially discuss contraception options with.

Now that I can agree with. Sharing information in a non-aggressive, non-intimidating way is an excellent idea. Heck, even sticking local rape support services info into the boxes on the racks is a good idea, IMO.

When it comes to parental involvement, I basically think it's the job of parents to make sure their kids know they can and should talk about these issues, that it's safe to do so, that they will be supportive in any circumstance, etc. If you create an open atmosphere for non-judgmental communication, I'm sure it'll pay dividends in what your kids are willing to share with you.

 

[Falvlun]

Because you're presenting an argument that isn't fully based on fact.

1 out of 6 women are victims of rape and this is an alarming, uncomfortable statistic.

According to medical reports, per the link that you provided, the incident of pregnancy, resulting from a one-time rape incident was 5%. This doesn't include unaccounted for pregnancies, particulary within younger age groups.

Here's the problem. 44% of the 15% of American females who are reportedly raped are youth and under the age of 18.

If 44% of rape/abuse victims are going to their neighborhood pharmacy for emergency contraception as opposed to a doctor, the abuse isn't being addressed.

You only have a 72 hour window to take emergency contraception, for it to be effective and the further away from the incident you go, the less effective the conraception is.

I'm going to stand by what statistics are suggesting. For one, statistics aren't suggesting that emergency contraception is going to impact these abused girls to the extent that you're projecting, as approximately 5% would be impacted by pregnancy to begin with.

Two, by removing any sort of adult intervention from the process, you don't address the abusive situation. A pregnancy may be prevented, but the situation itself is swept under a rug and abusive cycles will continue.

Girls need to be empowered to go to someone they trust. We need to get real. If you think these young girls are going to purchase emergency contraception, which I don't, why can't they talk to a pharmacist about the abuse?

Emergency contraception would likely be administered in a clinical setting if a girl went to law enforcement and reported rape, anyway.

You seem to be thinking this is an either/or: If you give full access to otc morning-after pills, then authorities won't be contacted. If you restrict access, then authorities will be contacted.

Why do you think that's the case? If it's so reasonable and easy for girls to contact authorities about abuse, then what reason would they have for not contacting the authorities about the abuse if they have full access to the pill?

Basically, I don't see full access to the pill either lowering or raising girls' likelihood of contacting authorities about abuse. All it will do is prevent pregnancies in the meantime.

 

[dawny0826]

Now that I can agree with. Sharing information in a non-aggressive, non-intimidating way is an excellent idea. Heck, even sticking local rape support services info into the boxes on the racks is a good idea, IMO.

When it comes to parental involvement, I basically think it's the job of parents to make sure their kids know they can and should talk about these issues, that it's safe to do so, that they will be supportive in any circumstance, etc. If you create an open atmosphere for non-judgmental communication, I'm sure it'll pay dividends in what your kids are willing to share with you.

Exactly.

Edit: If law changes and we're able to make these sorts of strides, I'll be a happy camper, as this is genuinely what's in the best interest of youth. I'll still be a bit ****** at the notion that my children could access something like without my knowledge, but, it's really not my children that I'm really worried about.

 

[Father Heathen]

What "proper authorities?"
Talk about big government, we'd need an army of inspectors and massive orphanages everywhere to house all the kids taken from their "incompetent" parents. How is an inner city ghetto or rural Appalachian community going to respond if 95% of their children are taken away by force? You'd have civil war!

Why would you embarrass yourself by presenting such a ridiculous straw man? That wasn't what I suggested at all. I'm saying that a pregnant 12 year old warrants a look into the child's welfare, due to how unusual such a case is, and due to the nature of the various circumstances that can lead to such a situation...and you're not honestly suggesting that 95% of 12 year old children get pregnant, are you?

 

[Father Heathen]

Why choose that particular moment, when a child is terrified that some consensual or non-consensual act might result in a pregnancy and is only concerned with averting that consequence, to pressure her to report her family to the authorities? Why not just let her sort out the pregnancy scare? How does the looming threat of police and social services getting all up in your family's business help a girl avoid an unwanted pregnancy with the morning after pill? How does it hinder? I think you've not thought this through.

If you have a child trying to get these pills, it should be the pharmacy rather than the child herself that files the report. Whatever the circumstances my be, something is obviously wrong at home, and again, if the case is one of abuse and/or negligence then silence only serves to perpetuate that cycle.

 

[Alceste]

If you have a child trying to get these pills, it should be the pharmacy rather than the child herself that files the report. Whatever the circumstances my be, something is obviously wrong at home, and again, if the case is one of abuse and/or negligence then silence only serves to perpetuate that cycle.

It's not your desire to help victims of abuse I'm questioning. That's a noble inclination. It's the timing of it, and the idea that a pharmacist is qualified to assess whether or not a child is likely to be the victim of abuse. That's not their job. Teachers, guidance counselors, parents, caregivers - anyone who spends a good deal of time with kids should be aware of how to identify a likely victim of abuse. But pharmacists? Giving a scared child the third degree in the middle of a drug store? It seems destructive and impractical. What's wrong with Dawny's suggestion of making sure information is available, but without subjecting the child to humiliation, intimidation and an invasion of her privacy?

 

[dawny0826]

It's not your desire to help victims of abuse I'm questioning. That's a noble inclination. It's the timing of it, and the idea that a pharmacist is qualified to assess whether or not a child is likely to be the victim of abuse. That's not their job. Teachers, guidance counselors, parents, caregivers - anyone who spends a good deal of time with kids should be aware of how to identify a likely victim of abuse. But pharmacists? Giving a scared child the third degree in the middle of a drug store? It seems destructive and impractical. What's wrong with Dawny's suggestion of making sure information is available, but without subjecting the child to humiliation, intimidation and an invasion of her privacy?

He doesn't disagree with my suggestion at all.

And if you read up on any of the manufacturer's recommendations for emergency contraception, over-the-counter purchase isn't supposed to REPLACE consultation with a pharmacist and follow-up with a medical professional.

Even though you and I have agreed on common sense approaches to providing youth information in a non-intrusive manner - you're still placing a lot of responsibility on MINORS to follow-through. The BEST scenario for youth who are in any sort of trouble, is to alert an adult who can confidentially defer to the proper authority or resource.

A pharmacist is someone who could confidentially alert authorities, if a child MENTIONED to them, "Help, I need this pill, BECAUSE I've been raped."

We're not saying that it's the job of pharmacists. But, if a kid won't tell anyone else, this is an adult that they could alert. Sure beats walking out of the pharmacy and sweeping the entire situation under the rug.

That's my husband's point.

 

[Father Heathen]

*nods*

 

[Alceste]

He doesn't disagree with my suggestion at all.

And if you read up on any of the manufacturer's recommendations for emergency contraception, over-the-counter purchase isn't supposed to REPLACE consultation with a pharmacist and follow-up with a medical professional.

Even though you and I have agreed on common sense approaches to providing youth information in a non-intrusive manner - you're still placing a lot of responsibility on MINORS to follow-through. The BEST scenario for youth who are in any sort of trouble, is to alert an adult who can confidentially defer to the proper authority or resource.

A pharmacist is someone who could confidentially alert authorities, if a child MENTIONED to them, "Help, I need this pill, BECAUSE I've been raped."

We're not saying that it's the job of pharmacists. But, if a kid won't tell anyone else, this is an adult that they could alert. Sure beats walking out of the pharmacy and sweeping the entire situation under the rug.

That's my husband's point.

Well sure. Any adult anywhere should be prepared to assist a child who says they have been assaulted. I gathered the approach FH supports would be for strangers at the drug store to be required to interrogate underage girls who are trying to buy the pill to determine why they think they need it, and to phone the police even if an assault was not suggested.

I think ensuring information on crisis centres and help lines is available is a more compassionate, sensible approach. There were always posters for these services in the bathrooms at my schools growing up. And guidance counselors, who were ostensibly there to discuss whatever you felt you needed to talk about, confidentially.

 

[Valjean]

I'm hearing lot of shoulds, ought tos and other idealistic fantasies, but the fact is, a lot of teens simply are not going to go to their parents about a pregnancy, or they'll put it off till carrying the child to term becomes the only option. In the case of rape even adults often don't report the crimes.

As for reporting to the police or other non-parental authorities, a lot of teens are going to balk at this as well, especially if they think it might lead to an investigation or some sort of fuss. Most teens, I think, just want the problem to go away as quietly as possible -- which is exactly what this medication offers.