Most Religions Believe In An Afterlife

[Sgt. Pepper]

The division between the spiritual and material does not hold.

I believe this is especially true on All Hallow's Eve.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is not the place where one can get into a critique of the Baha'i thinking. But I am clear that there is no everlasting life after death.

That depends upon how you define everlasting life. How do you define it?

In the Bible, everlasting life is the same as eternal life and Jesus defined eternal life as nearness to him and nearness to God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Most Christians believe that eternal life means living forever, but that is not what the verse above says.

There has to be a method of how the soul continues to progress beyond death. So, one possibility is that the soul realizes itself after death, but then it does not have the instruments of mind to be able to do so.

Why do you think that the soul would need the brain and mind to function. I believe that after death we will have a spiritual body.
There is no way we can know how that body will function, since the world beyond is a mystery.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 155-158

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
(Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 193-196

So, the only solution is for the soul to take a rebirth and then move towards higher evolution.

Since we have no way of knowing what form the soul will take after we die, I don't think that is the only solution.

How is that a solution? It makes sense to me that eventually a soul has to cast off this mortal body, so eventually it will have to take on another kind of form if it is going to continue to exist.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Why do you need to reach this soul? Is it something that is separate from you that you must reach out and grasp to understand?

Could this "soul" perhaps be something the body/mind complex is ignorant of as a result of attachment and desire to that which appears in transactional reality?

Yes, the soul is different than my body and mind. Hence, to sync with the soul, it is necessary to reach out to the soul and understand its desires.
It is true that the body-mind complex is ignorant of the soul and faces much pain in this world. That is the reason why it has to reach the soul to synchronize its life with the desires of the soul, which also embodies the desires of the universe.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I believe this is especially true on All Hallow's Eve.

I was speaking of the division between the spiritual and material within oneself, but you may be right, Halloween also indicates that the spiritual and material are interrelated.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

That depends upon how you define everlasting life. How do you define it?

In the Bible, everlasting life is the same as eternal life and Jesus defined eternal life as nearness to him and nearness to God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Most Christians believe that eternal life means living forever, but that is not what the verse above says.

Why do you think that the soul would need the brain and mind to function. I believe that after death we will have a spiritual body.
There is no way we can know how that body will function, since the world beyond is a mystery.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 155-158

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
(Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 193-196

Since we have no way of knowing what form the soul will take after we die, I don't think that is the only solution.

How is that a solution? It makes sense to me that eventually a soul has to cast off this mortal body, so eventually it will have to take on another kind of form if it is going to continue to exist.

The soul is a psychic entity that does not have a mind or body, and hence the soul can't fulfill its desires. Therefore, the soul accepts a body to fulfill its desires through that body.
The assumption that we do not know anything about the soul after death is not correct. By meditation, one can know about what happens beyond death. So, when you quote Christ as saying that there will be eternal life, that also means that Christ was able to see beyond death. So, death is not a limiting factor. If one undertakes sufficient effort to understand what lies beyond it.

 

[gotti]

I spent a long time laughing and sneering at the concept of an afterlife.

These days, I can not only conceive of one, but I hope it exists.

I think it goes to getting older and experiencing finer aspects and details of the human experience.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, the soul is different than my body and mind. Hence, to sync with the soul, it is necessary to reach out to the soul and understand its desires.

I asked if the "soul" is something separate from you. Are you your body and mind? You said yourself "my body and mind." Who is the 'me' laying claim to this body and mind?

 

[Trailblazer]

The soul is a psychic entity that does not have a mind or body, and hence the soul can't fulfill its desires. Therefore, the soul accepts a body to fulfill its desires through that body.

I agree.

The assumption that we do not know anything about the soul after death is not correct. By meditation, one can know about what happens beyond death.

With all due respect, I don't think that we can know what happens beyond death until we die.

So, when you quote Christ as saying that there will be eternal life, that also means that Christ was able to see beyond death. So, death is not a limiting factor. If one undertakes sufficient effort to understand what lies beyond it.

Christ was able to see beyond death because he was not like any one of us. He was a Prophet, whose soul had existed in the spiritual world before he was his body was born into this world, so of course he knew what that world was like.

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

 

[ChatwithGod]

Many religions hold a belief in an afterlife. Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism, for example, each have concepts of heaven or similar realms where souls go after death. Judaism also has beliefs about the afterlife, though they can vary widely

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The assumption that we do not know anything about the soul after death is not correct.

I agree with you to a point. I say this because none of my gracious spirit guides or any earthbound human spirits whom I've communicated with have ever directly answered my questions about the spirit world, but I've gleaned enough tidbits of information to have a clear understanding of what can happen to people after death. I can say, however, that it isn't as the Bible claims. When I specifically asked these spirits about the spirit world, I received vague answers, while others refused to answer or quickly changed the subject. My spirit guides, on the other hand, have told me that I must wait and see for myself. What I do know is that after what I've experienced with spirits since I was six years old, I've decided that I have no legitimate reason to accept what the Bible teaches about the afterlife or that death is something that I should necessarily fear. Personally, I don't fear dying since I renounced my belief in the Abrahamic God. But I do wonder how I will die and whether I will cross over, but I'm not concerned about what will happen to me on the other side.

As a spirit medium and spiritualist, I believe that we typically greeted by either spirit guides or our loved ones when it's our time to cross over. I believe that spirit guides help human spirits cross over to the spirit world and communicate with the living. I've met and spoken with ones that I'd describe as angelic, as well as with human spirits that I perceived had reached a higher state of existence on the other side. I've often worked with both of these spirit guides when I've had difficulty understanding a spirit's message or convincing a lost and confused spirit to cross over. I feel as though I have a spiritual connection with these spirit guides whenever I am with them and conversing with them. I feel as if I personally know them, and I trust them to help me.

By meditation, one can know about what happens beyond death.

Then there are people like me who have extrasensory perception, or the sixth sense. I was born with it. I became aware of it after my first encounter with an earthbound human spirit when I was six years old, although I have vague memories of it happening earlier, when I was four and five. However, I don't attribute my abilities to any religious belief or revelation from a supernatural deity. I know of other mediums who do integrate their religion, but I don't.

 

[Copernicus]

The soul is a psychic entity that does not have a mind or body, and hence the soul can't fulfill its desires. Therefore, the soul accepts a body to fulfill its desires through that body.

But it is minds that have desires, because those desires are relationships between a body and the physical reality it interacts with. There is absolutely no reason to think that desires occur independently of brain activity any more than fears, anger, lust, and anger do. All emotions are easily traceable to physical brain activity and can be strongly affected by introducing changes to that activity. Drinking alcohol or another addictive substance can affect them, because drugs introduce physical changes to the way the brain operates. Souls don't become addicted. Brains do.

The assumption that we do not know anything about the soul after death is not correct. By meditation, one can know about what happens beyond death. So, when you quote Christ as saying that there will be eternal life, that also means that Christ was able to see beyond death. So, death is not a limiting factor. If one undertakes sufficient effort to understand what lies beyond it.

The problem with your argument is that minds are subject to delusions, and people can work themselves into a state where they cannot distinguish illusion from reality.

 

[Truthseeker]

Then there are people like me who have extrasensory perception, or the sixth sense.

That was the name of that movie "The sixth sense". I think this was the first attempt M. Night Shyamalan, and it was by far his best supernatural movie. For one thing, I believe there are rare people like you that can communicate with dead people, so it was true to life. It also had a good twist at the end, though I had read reviews about the film which said it had a good twist in the end, and by the middle of the film, I knew what the twist was.

 

[an anarchist]

What’s that tell ya? Just maybe there might be one?

It tells me that a major and common function of religion is to assuage the fear of death.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I asked if the "soul" is something separate from you. Are you your body and mind? You said yourself "my body and mind." Who is the 'me' laying claim to this body and mind?

The me is my soul and the mind and body are my instruments.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I agree.

With all due respect, I don't think that we can know what happens beyond death until we die.

Christ was able to see beyond death because he was not like any one of us. He was a Prophet, whose soul had existed in the spiritual world before he was his body was born into this world, so of course he knew what that world was like.

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

We can also attain the status of prophets in part, if not in full. So let us not assume that the prophets had a different level of knowledge. We can also attain that knowledge. I think that Jesus was born a normal human being and during the 17 missing years, he made contact with mystics or did meditation and he attained God, and we can do so similarly.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I agree with you to a point. I say this because none of my gracious spirit guides or any earthbound human spirits whom I've communicated with have ever directly answered my questions about the spirit world, but I've gleaned enough tidbits of information to have a clear understanding of what can happen to people after death. I can say, however, that it isn't as the Bible claims. When I specifically asked these spirits about the spirit world, I received vague answers, while others refused to answer or quickly changed the subject. My spirit guides, on the other hand, have told me that I must wait and see for myself. What I do know is that after what I've experienced with spirits since I was six years old, I've decided that I have no legitimate reason to accept what the Bible teaches about the afterlife or that death is something that I should necessarily fear. Personally, I don't fear dying since I renounced my belief in the Abrahamic God. But I do wonder how I will die and whether I will cross over, but I'm not concerned about what will happen to me on the other side.

As a spirit medium and spiritualist, I believe that we typically greeted by either spirit guides or our loved ones when it's our time to cross over. I believe that spirit guides help human spirits cross over to the spirit world and communicate with the living. I've met and spoken with ones that I'd describe as angelic, as well as with human spirits that I perceived had reached a higher state of existence on the other side. I've often worked with both of these spirit guides when I've had difficulty understanding a spirit's message or convincing a lost and confused spirit to cross over. I feel as though I have a spiritual connection with these spirit guides whenever I am with them and conversing with them. I feel as if I personally know them, and I trust them to help me.



Then there are people like me who have extrasensory perception, or the sixth sense. I was born with it. I became aware of it after my first encounter with an earthbound human spirit when I was six years old, although I have vague memories of it happening earlier, when I was four and five. However, I don't attribute my abilities to any religious belief or revelation from a supernatural deity. I know of other mediums who do integrate their religion, but I don't.

I am very, very happy to read your post and about your experiences. The way forward, I think, is to read the different scriptures. Understand what they are saying about the afterlife, and then put this hypothesis to test with the spirits. Instead of just asking the spirits. If you ask them pointed questions to either honor or dishonor a particular statement, you may get more clear replies. My own experience is that I have met some departed souls of Prophets, and they have guided me, but I have not met any spirits, perhaps in the sense that you are speaking with. I think I have met God as a continuum of the holy sound ‘Om’ or some humming noise that has infinite existence.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

But it is minds that have desires, because those desires are relationships between a body and the physical reality it interacts with. There is absolutely no reason to think that desires occur independently of brain activity any more than fears, anger, lust, and anger do. All emotions are easily traceable to physical brain activity and can be strongly affected by introducing changes to that activity. Drinking alcohol or another addictive substance can affect them, because drugs introduce physical changes to the way the brain operates. Souls don't become addicted. Brains do.



The problem with your argument is that minds are subject to delusions, and people can work themselves into a state where they cannot distinguish illusion from reality.

You are right. Mind and body receive the experiences but those are transmitted to the soul and the soul also partakes of those experiences and evolves. So, the absolute distinction between mind, body, and on one side and soul on the other side does not hold. The soul itself wants the mind and body, and it has certain desires that it wants the mind and body to fulfill. When the mind and body do not work in concordance with the soul, then disease occurs.

We cannot use the exceptions to rubbish a rule. Yes, the mind has delusions, but not all minds have delusions, and not at all times. So let us work with the mind in the normal sense first. Delusions are exceptions that can be ignored.

 

[Trailblazer]

It tells me that a major and common function of religion is to assuage the fear of death.

I am not afraid of death, but sometimes I am afraid of life.
Of course, maybe that is because I know that death is a messenger of joy.

32: O SON OF THE SUPREME! I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou grieve? I made the light to shed on thee its splendor. Why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh

 

[Trailblazer]

We can also attain the status of prophets in part, if not in full. So let us not assume that the prophets had a different level of knowledge. We can also attain that knowledge. I think that Jesus was born a normal human being and during the 17 missing years, he made contact with mystics or did meditation and he attained God, and we can do so similarly.

Yes, we can attain the knowledge that prophets have by reading the scriptures, but I don't think we can ever be the same as level as the prophets who were manifestations of God, because I believe that they have a twofold nature that no other humans possess.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

 

[Copernicus]

You are right. Mind and body receive the experiences but those are transmitted to the soul and the soul also partakes of those experiences and evolves. So, the absolute distinction between mind, body, and on one side and soul on the other side does not hold. The soul itself wants the mind and body, and it has certain desires that it wants the mind and body to fulfill. When the mind and body do not work in concordance with the soul, then disease occurs.

As you may know, I make no distinction between the soul and the mind, since I am a materialist. That is, I do not believe in the existence of disembodied souls. In my view, consciousness is a special property of physical brain activity. When the brain dies, brain activity ceases and the mind therefore ceases to exist. That is, each of us only exists for a brief span of time as an evolving consciousness.

We cannot use the exceptions to rubbish a rule. Yes, the mind has delusions, but not all minds have delusions, and not at all times. So let us work with the mind in the normal sense first. Delusions are exceptions that can be ignored.

I agree that we all harbor some delusions, but what we know of reality is just a mental framework based on how our bodies interact with it. I'm not sure I would call them the exception. They may be fundamental in some way to the way the brain functions.