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Muhammad is God?

Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
InvestigateTruth said:
You have some points.
As a Bahai I believe Muhammad was a Manifestation of God. The Manifestation of God, is like a Mirror, showing and representing the Image of God.; that is, a Mirror reflecting the Attributes and Will of God in fullness.
There are also verses if Quran, and Hadithes, confirming this.
However, the natural body of Muhammad, was mortal, just as any other mortal man, as you also see in the Quran. His Holy Soul however, is the Manifestation of God.
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I don't believe that he is a manifestation of God. I believe God manifests himself through him. There is a big difference.

I don't believe even God Himself in Jesus reveals everything about Himself. He reveals whatever serves His purpose.

I doubt it but I believe you can try to provide them except Hadiths which are useless.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
YmirGF said:
While Muslims would likely agree with the first part I don't see many of them agreeing with your 2nd assertion. If Muhammad was a manifestation of god, "god" help us all.
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I don't believe God would have wives or even one wife and I believe Jesus is an example of that.
 
S

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
A Spirit Runs Through It said:
Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?
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It's all a matter of how you want to define words. Take a person who was born a mortal man, lives a good and righteous life, and is venerated after their death and considered holy. A Catholic will call this a Saint. A Taoist will call this a God. It's all a matter of definition.

Ultimately when it comes to the prophets and God and the question of whether or not the prophet is or is not God, it seems ... unimportant to me.

It seems the same as if there is a mirror reflecting the light of the sun. One man points to the image of the sun on the mirror and says "That is the Sun!!" A second man points to the image of the sun on the mirror and says "That is a Mirror!!" It seems to me that both men could be said to be correct. It's all a matter of interpretation.

Likewise a prophet reflects the Word of God. One points to the prophet and says "This is God!!" another says "This is a Prophet!!" Both have their degrees of correctness.
 
Epic Beard Man

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
A Spirit Runs Through It said:
Muslims believe that no human is God, and that to worship a human as God is considered polytheism, and an unforgivable sin. However this is odd, because Muslims seem to deify Muhammad: making an image of Muhammad is forbidden; it is obligatory to ask God each day to send blessings upon Muhammad; in Muhammad's own day his every preference was to be obeyed, even if it did not "come from God"; Muhammad's saliva was believed to have healing powers—newborns were given it to drink. I do not mean to disparage Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims. But this has been on my mind for some time. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no matter the name, it is a duck. Which human is given such reverence and privilege other than Muhammad? If this has been discussed elsewhere then please provide me with the link. Thanks. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Muslims believe Muhammad being the "seal of the prophets" to be the best among what God has sent to mankind. With that being said, Muslims often try to emmulate his example not just as one who follows the faith of Islam, but as a human being. The whole saliva thing can be considered folklore, or true, but to revere Muhammad (or incorporate reverence for him in prayer) is forbidden and in fact would be considered "Bid'ah." Muhammad's bones are dust as ours will be when we die he is no more man than you or I. In Islamic theology Muhammad's powers whatever that is, is given to him by God--he depended on God so no, he is not some deity worthy of worship, just a man who recreated a faith that was forgotten.
 
Epic Beard Man

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
A Spirit Runs Through It said:
I was Muslim.

You obviously do not understand mainstream Christianity.

The Father is essentially an abyss so to speak, with a mind. This mind imagined itself and formed an idea of who it was: a self-image, who is the Son. This image was that of flesh and bone, in an environment of land, sea, atmosphere and life. And when this image was generated, it created that land, sea, etc. Jesus said: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" This makes sense, does it not? Jesus is God; and he said so.

Have you ever heard the saying, or some form of it: 'They don't say what they mean; they don't mean what they say'? Yeah—Muhammad said to worship God. But what does it matter if one calls a duck by another name? It is still a duck.

Why do Muslims kill people for making images of Muhammad?

The self-image of God is an intermediary between God and man? What are you talking about?

I think you got it mixed up.
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You claimed to be formerly a Muslim (sounds like you were not good at it--no offense) because you are asking questions you should've already known when you were Muslim.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Sanzbir said:
It's all a matter of how you want to define words. Take a person who was born a mortal man, lives a good and righteous life, and is venerated after their death and considered holy. A Catholic will call this a Saint. A Taoist will call this a God. It's all a matter of definition.

Ultimately when it comes to the prophets and God and the question of whether or not the prophet is or is not God, it seems ... unimportant to me.

It seems the same as if there is a mirror reflecting the light of the sun. One man points to the image of the sun on the mirror and says "That is the Sun!!" A second man points to the image of the sun on the mirror and says "That is a Mirror!!" It seems to me that both men could be said to be correct. It's all a matter of interpretation.

Likewise a prophet reflects the Word of God. One points to the prophet and says "This is God!!" another says "This is a Prophet!!" Both have their degrees of correctness.
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A prophet can't know all things or see all things or do all things.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Epic Beard Man said:
Muslims believe Muhammad being the "seal of the prophets" to be the best among what God has sent to mankind. With that being said, Muslims often try to emmulate his example not just as one who follows the faith of Islam, but as a human being. The whole saliva thing can be considered folklore, or true, but to revere Muhammad (or incorporate reverence for him in prayer) is forbidden and in fact would be considered "Bid'ah." Muhammad's bones are dust as ours will be when we die he is no more man than you or I. In Islamic theology Muhammad's powers whatever that is, is given to him by God--he depended on God so no, he is not some deity worthy of worship, just a man who recreated a faith that was forgotten.
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I believe this is simply ego because Jesus as God in the flesh is much better than Muhammad.
 
S

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
A prophet can't know all things or see all things or do all things.
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No, and a mirror cannot produce light.

But the sun can produce light, and the mirror can reflect its light and its image.

Likewise a prophet cannot know all things or see all things or do all things, but a prophet can reflect the Word and Will of One Who Can, correct??

And so while a prophet may not be literally God just as a mirror is not literally the sun, we can still see God in that prophet just as we can see the sun in the mirror.

And so while I do not agree when people, such as yourself, jump to claim that this-or-that prophet was literally God, I can understand why they have come to believe such a thing, as they saw God as reflected in that prophet.

And ultimately I don't think it is all that important of a question. The important thing is the Word of God, not the vessel that packaged it. What does it matter whether God gave us a message directly or sent someone else to give it to us?? Isn't the message more important than how we got it??
 
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az604

New Member
This shouldn't even be a discussion. Common knowledge answers your question and if you had been a practicing muslim you would have never asked this.

First pillar of Islam:
I bear witness that there is no deity except Allah.

Quran:
Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent." [112:1-4]

Hadith:

The Prophet (pbuh) said: “Do not exaggerate about me as the Christians exaggerated about the son of Maryam, for I am just a slave, so say ‘The slave of Allaah and His Messenger.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, Ahaadeeth al-Anbiya’, 3189).

He also said: "The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Resurrection will be the image-makers.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Libaas, 5494).

So how could he grant permission to make a picture of him?

Nobody makes pictures of him so that he could AVOID being deified. You have it twisted.
 
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