Mundanes, RHPers, sheep, and the like.

[1137]

Great argument, your shock based system definitely shows its worth. Maybe instead of lashing out like an angsty teen you should actually psychoanalize your need for shock and offense and question how caring what scares and offends other could possibly free you from their influence. Don't get all fallacious with us just because you envy our religions' ability to exist without reliance on RHP morality and values.

 

[Infinitum]

How should our in-groups treat out groups. While I like the O9A I don't agree with their stance on mundanes - at least as far as I understand it. Many individuals and orders treat the out-groups in normal, psych 101 ways. To me this is just acting the same as the act towards us. With the exception of true harm to another's will, I couldn't care less what other groups are doing. Likewise, outside of certain cases, I couldn't care less what they're not doing. It used to be different even with other members like Adramelek where we'd debate subjective preference - usually it was my own fault even. I no longer see any benefit. All of us would like a "better" world I'm sure, but there's a fine line between "enlightened individualism" and treating out-groups the way they treat us.

In my long relationship with the "LHP" I've seen as much hate as from the "RHP". Obviously I have no desire to speak for or reform anything other than my own paradigm, but I'm just asking those this applies to to possibly reevaluate what exactly we stand for. Must elitism breed aggression? Must individuality breed contempt?

This doesn't apply to many of us here but it's a point I feel all seekers on these paths should consider.

To return the thread to where it came from, i.e. the entry above I have some questions about some of the things referenced here. I've mostly just skimmed over the thread titles lately, so I'm not quite up to date with the Order of Nine Angles or any of that. Starting from basics: how do you define "in-groups" and "out-groups"? What does the divide signify to you?

To answer, or more just ponder over, the questions you asked I think elitism as a habit of thought does breed aggression to some extent. Any kind of "me" versus "the world" or "us" versus "them" plays upon some of the most fundamental parts of the human psyche. The caveman inside us understands and also acts on divides like these. It's very natural for us to start protecting the "tribe borders", whether it be ideology, groups of people or even aesthetics. Similarly when talking about individuals we often use imagery like "lone wolves". It goes back to the same primal need to protect something that's yours.

I think embracing any limit like this as part of who you view yourself to be (me-world, us-them) can, and perhaps is even likely to, breed both aggression and contempt. When something becomes a part of your self image, you not only have the need to protect the "tribe", but also your own sense of self. For me it raises the question whether drawing lines like these are very helpful.

That doesn't mean I think all labels should be abolished and forgotten about, because we need names for things when we're talking about them. But we are not the names. The names and labels are always an abstraction for an observation, a way of grouping individuals based on their similarities or their differences. I think the most important re-evaluation we (who label ourselves LHP) can make is whether there really is a "we" at all and how that "we" relates to us, the individual data points in the observation (the Left-Hand Path). Is the label us or are we the label?

 

[Adramelek]

How should our in-groups treat out groups. While I like the O9A I don't agree with their stance on mundanes - at least as far as I understand it. Many individuals and orders treat the out-groups in normal, psych 101 ways. To me this is just acting the same as the act towards us. With the exception of true harm to another's will, I couldn't care less what other groups are doing. Likewise, outside of certain cases, I couldn't care less what they're not doing. It used to be different even with other members like Adramelek where we'd debate subjective preference - usually it was my own fault even. I no longer see any benefit. All of us would like a "better" world I'm sure, but there's a fine line between "enlightened individualism" and treating out-groups the way they treat us.

Since my user-name was mentioned in this post, I feel compelled to respond. My thoughts on these matters are quite simple. My personal belief system and individual Truth is not in competition with any other, therefore, I have no need to debate the "argument". It is very rare, any more, that any criticism of me or of what I hold to be true ever enters into my mind - accept when I visit certain forums like this and others. Therefore, since I don't see my beliefs in competition, why should I respond in a contrary or combative way - or for that matter in any way? I think for most of us on the LHP our individual belief systems are personally determined through study, practice, and life experience, and are beyond profane defilement. However, we can always argue the basics with mutual honor and respect.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Mindmaster]

Since my user-name was mentioned in this post, I feel compelled to respond. My thoughts on these matters are quite simple. My personal belief system and individual Truth is not in competition with any other, therefore, I have no need to debate the "argument".

I'm biased toward my own, but again not really a belief system if it is a product of investigation. It is more of a working hypothesis at least until future information modifies the base assumptions.

Religion at its core is married to artistic perceptions which are mere manifestations of spiritual paradigms. Thus we can argue about how much my perception sucks or how much yours does and all we conclude is we both suck in some ways. Most of the polarization comes from the children of the American media machine. They see things black and white, is or isn't, or whatever. There is no room for muddling -- you must be a Maple Leafs or Blackhawks fan. You must support everything the military does because a few hapless non-creative people found slave contracts more palatable than their living environment.

This divisiveness really seems to be the "master plan" if I am understanding how the world works. It is in "the powers that be"'s best interest if we are clawing at one another like rabid dogs fighting over scraps. It doesn't merely exist among LHP'ers -- the Christians, Jews, and Muslims all hate every single sect that isn't like them even if they call themselves the same name. Hell, they probably hate each and every one of their own as well.. they just hate other people more... Of course, being that one always has to be right in an argument no one can admit to the mistake. If we're wrong our god, science, or whatever gibberish we're currently bound to irrevocably is as well.

Everything that goes on here is merely an extension of the real world sandbox. The sandbox where people are controlled to live, work, and play in predictable ways to the profit of a greedy few. So are you winning the argument when you display your mental captivity to this machine, or are you winning if you simply don't play the game? A harder question to answer... =)

[youtube]-b7qaSxuZUg[/youtube]

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

The us/them mentality, elitism, group-preference, etc is merely part of being a mammal. We all have a preference for 'our own', it's only natural. Through these divisions comes the friction that drives all progress, what jason King would call 'The Wheel'. Understanding that conflict is the source of progress(however you might want to interpret 'progress') is a key foundational cornerstone to any LHP system worth anything.

The 'lets all get along' mentality, that is to seek to remove division is mutually inclusive to seeking the very opposite of the Satanic 'Wheel', meaning that each move towards 'normalization/homogenization' is a move towards stagnation;once all conflict ceases so does all progress.

This is really the core of it to me, both esoterically and exoterically. Satan is that which tears down stagnation, keeps the pot stirred, and keeps things fresh. Esoterically it is methodically tearing down those things with which you grow comfortable, by whatever means necessary. Likewise for exoterics, which is where 'the doors of perception's favourite, yet misunderstood accusation 'shock satanism' is actually true. This is why the Aghori eat human flesh and bath in grave ash, although the aghori of today mostly just go through the motions.

 

[Mindmaster]

The Aghori are doing something "adverse" but accepted in their culture. They're not following any sort of LHP path. Other cultures would form lynch mobs if you decided to gnaw on or take their ancestors bones or flesh. Most of what they do is able to happen via the fact that the local peoples burial custom involves a pyre, and leaving of the remains near the Ganges. It wouldn't be too hard to run them off if the locals really detested them.

I'm not too sure I am convinced that being comfortable is bad. Theoretically, a perfected human in the state of apotheosis is perfectly in harmony with themselves but may be completely inharmonious with the outside world. But, ideally one would mold your surroundings to conform with your will. Spilling the bowl because you're finished is progress -- spilling it for the sake of doing so is acting like a toddler.

I'm pretty sure Jason King went back to his non-Satanic day job... Whatever that is... Hard telling if he's really smart or just really damn high. =)

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

They're not following any sort of LHP path.

As any antinomian thing, the aghoris were long ago assimilated into nomos..ie..became less 'objectionable'. All things of antinomian value have a shelf life;as these antinomian currents gain steam, they become known, and they become 'cool', and it becomes more about the trappings as more and more 'normalized' people flood it's ranks. This phenomenon is already well underway in 'online satanism'.

Theoretically, a perfected human in the state of apotheosis is<snip>

Going to have to stop you there, already two meaningless words. Nothing can come of this. Perfected? Apotheosis? These are language concepts that in no way translate to reality.

ideally one would mold your surroundings to conform with your will

I guess that depends what you think the 'will' is. Do you think you have 'free will'?

 

[nash8]

The Aghori are doing something "adverse" but accepted in their culture. They're not following any sort of LHP path. Other cultures would form lynch mobs if you decided to gnaw on or take their ancestors bones or flesh. Most of what they do is able to happen via the fact that the local peoples burial custom involves a pyre, and leaving of the remains near the Ganges. It wouldn't be too hard to run them off if the locals really detested them.

Aghori, are about much more than eating human flesh, and drinking out of a human skull. As was mentioned above, many of their "popular" practices have become "normal" if you can call it that, but it was not originally that way.

Secondly, there is much more to the Aghori then just participating in "social taboos". They're entire approach to life is merging with the universal force of death/destruction. Within the context of their society, which is predominately Hindu, the exact opposite is generally true. They seek to become one with the universal animating force, within many forms of Hinduism.

The Aghori's entire approach to spirituality is in direct contrast with that of their general society with regard to practices, beliefs, and ultimate goal of the path. I don't know how you can get more "LHP" than the Aghori. They are outcasts within their society, albeit "accepted outcasts" if that makes any sense. Interestingly enough, they are also considered great healers and magicians, and are often asked to heal peoples sick, and cast out demons. However, it is a difficult task to approach the Aghori with these requests.