MURDER, GENOCIDE, and ATHEISTS.

[PoetPhilosopher]

so you wont do it again?

I make no real guarantees that I won't. But I'll try not to.

 

[Audie]

I make no real guarantees that I won't. But I'll try not to.

Guarantee that if you do I will bite you.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Guarantee that if you do I will bite you.

I understand. I just have to be careful not to deal in absolutes - it's what Sith do according to Star Wars.

 

[Audie]

¨You¨ statements are personal accusations, personal attacks.

I have not once accused you of anything, said anything about how you relate to your belief structure..

The only you statements I recall making to you were complimentary and supportive.

I told you no such thing about mass murder, you are assuming, wrongly. Nor do I think others are like me, and I never said that.

You have personal rancor towards me, and display it in you words, fine. You will receive no tit for tat responses from me .

The issue is that atheists in control of governments, almost 60% of them, committed massive genocide.

Respond to the facts.

I have nothing personal against you,
I am, though, appalled by your attitude
and behaviour. That is a fact.

I already said what I think of your version
of "facts". Your adding more bs as in the
above is not an invitation to discuss facts.

 

[shmogie]

M

I have nothing personal against you,
I am, though, appalled by your attitude
and behaviour. That is a fact.

I already said what I think of your version
of "facts". Your adding more bs as in the
above is not an invitation to facts.

my version of facts are facts.

Do you deny that atheist world leaders committed genocide ? Then prove it.

My attitude and behavior ? Best look in the mirror.

 

[shmogie]

Of course you had no friendly intent, lets not
be disingenuous.

That clarified, I trust, lets look at facts.
Not that everything you said is a fact, but,
facts that there are are readily misrepresented,
especially by one who has a specific agenda
as you so non-dispassionately and obviously do.

Here are some facts. Your face is lopsided, your teeth
are crooked. Your nose is crooked. One ear is bigger
the other. You have big pores, your teeth are
rotting, and your nostrils are full of germs.

Not a word of that is less than a fact. heck, it is true of
you, me, and the man behind the tree.

Where your charges against "atheists" blend off from
statistics into opinion misrepresentation and falsehood,
where it holds some water, I have preferred to leave
to others.

The specifics of your charges, I will set aside for
now, but may come back to it. Lets look at your
charge against 'atheists" who so deride what you
seemingly say are all the beliefs of all christians.

This is, if it happens, quite rare, and is in no
way characteristic of atheists. I would like to see
an example, I'd be as likely to go after the perp as you.

Now, this is a debate forum. IF you bring in
some baloney ideas, you will find them come
under dispute. If you cannot handle it without
having a blow out, then avoid being here.

An example of baloney ideas would be the literal
reading of genesis. A belief in a literal 6 day poof and
the flood can only be achieved through ignorance,
and for those who can no longer claim the status of naif,
via intellectual dishonesty.

IF anyone comes along expecting full
respect and gentle massaging when you charge in
denouncing science in the name of a moldy
superstition, well, too bad. You wont get it.

Further, the centuries long reign of those ideas
over good sense is still not over, and, attempts
to force it back into public schools never stops.
Push back, not always polite, is inevitable.

I have two questions for you. A try at an honest
reflective answer would be appreciated.

1. What do you hope to accomplish with this thread?
2. Can you just say yes / no to the question
of, would you kill me if god told you to?

To demonstrate that atheism has no standards of morality, each individual is allowed to determine their own personal morality. You think it is moral to kill hundreds of millions, murder hundreds of millions.

If theism has a defined morality, please share it with me. Not your morality, atheism as a whole.

No, God does not subvert his own commandments, therefore God would not command me to kill you. Any such command could not be from God.










No, God does not subvert his own commandments.

 

[shmogie]

You only get to apologize on your own behalf.

Ms. Audie, Henceforth I will no longer respond to you. It is totally non productive.

I have no desire for you to continue to try my patience and attempt to provoke my anger.

Find another whipping boy and take your nasty biases and uncontrolled emotion there.

Adieu.

 

[shmogie]

To demonstrate that atheism has no standards of morality, each individual is allowed to determine their own personal morality. You think it is moral to kill hundreds of millions, murder hundreds of millions.

If theism has a defined morality, please share it with me. Not your morality, atheism as a whole.

No, God does not subvert his own commandments, therefore God would not command me to kill you. Any such command could not be from God.










No, God does not subvert his own commandments.

Substitute ATHEISM for THEISM

 

[Augustus]

I plagiarised nothing and i suggest you provide your evidence of your claim

I linked to the post earlier. Same numbers, same language, even same punctuation. This strange list seems to pop up in many places online and has some unusual expression and dodgy numbers which is why I recognised it.

Just a few entries, but there are many more. Reddit (link here) then You (from this post):

Reddit: Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
You: Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000

R: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Y: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000

R: Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Y: Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000

R: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Y: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000

R: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Y: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000

R: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Y: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000

R: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Y: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000

Either you wrote the post, you copied parts of the post (or a derivative), or you and the poster copy/pasted parts of the same source. If there is another reason, please correct me and I'll apologise. Where did you get these from?

And i have had enough, this is the third time of asking so this time i will offer a deal , provide valid figures to justify your objections (opinion and foot stomping not recognised as valid), that can be verified against other academic sources and i will answer your questions.

While I know this will be a complete waste of time...

You seem to believe accurate figures really do exist somewhere (at least this explains a lot regarding the questions you won't answer). As I've, very unsuccessfully, been trying to point out, they do not exist anywhere for this period.

This leaves us with 2 possibilities:

1) Uncritically accept the wildly inaccurate figures people noted down hundreds of years ago
2) Accept we'll never know accurate numbers, but try our best to apply a critical methodology to historical sources (and understanding that it's much easier to identify what is right, rather than wrong).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you think 2 is best.

We could, for example, compare rates to modern conflicts where we have a reasonable idea of what death at this scale actually looks like. Numbers without context are not analytically helpfully after all.

“World War II at its worst saw almost 300 battle deaths per 100,000 people per year. S. Pinker, Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress.

Scale this to a population of 70 million to approximate the population of India = 210,000 deaths per year

Your 80 million /400 years = 200,000 per year.

Not sure about you, but of someone told me an entire nation faced 400 years of growth and prosperity where their population was killed at a similar rate to people during the worst industrialised war in history, at its worst, I'd be quite sceptical at accepting these figures without very substantial evidence.

Not that you'll answer, but wouldn't you agree?

Maybe you think it was mostly peaceful with a few massive exterminations. In this case we'd probably expect to see some degree of population replacement as outsiders move in to take advantage of high quality, vacant land. Yet:

We find that the Muslim populations in general are genetically closer to their non-Muslim geographical neighbors than to other Muslims in India, and that there is a highly significant correlation between genetics and geography (but not religion). Our findings indicate that, despite the documented practice of marriage between Muslim men and Hindu women, Islamization in India did not involve large-scale replacement of Hindu Y chromosomes. The Muslim expansion in India was predominantly a cultural change and was not accompanied by significant gene flow, as seen in other places, such as China and Central Asia.
A Shared Y-chromosomal Heritage between Muslims and Hindus in India https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590854/

So to justify your 80 million (which you've never offered even a shred of evidence for), you have to believe a country can be growing and prosperous with a population being exterminated at the rate people during the worst period of WW2 for 4 centuries (coupled, obviously, with mass migration to escape being killed) yet with no significant population replacement via immigration.

Obviously you won't address this, and you will avoid answering even simple questions regarding your extensive 'research' and 'analysis' by which you determined 80 million to be a "conservative" estimate.

At least what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

 

[Audie]

No, God does not subvert his own commandments, therefore God would not command me to kill you. Any such command could not be from God.

No, God does not subvert his own commandments.

Yet you yourself say that he used to give commands
such as, say, for you to kill me, tho he has not done it
lately.

So what to do in such a paradox...

Claiming perfect certainty as to know what "god"
would or would not do next is taking on a lot,
for a mere mortal.

 

[ChristineM]

I linked to the post earlier. Same numbers, same language, even same punctuation. This strange list seems to pop up in many places online and has some unusual expression and dodgy numbers which is why I recognised it.

Just a few entries, but there are many more. Reddit (link here) then You (from this post):

Reddit: Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
You: Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000

R: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Y: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000

R: Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Y: Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000

R: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Y: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000

R: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Y: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000

R: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Y: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000

R: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Y: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000

Either you wrote the post, you copied parts of the post (or a derivative), or you and the poster copy/pasted parts of the same source. If there is another reason, please correct me and I'll apologise. Where did you get these from?



While I know this will be a complete waste of time...

You seem to believe accurate figures really do exist somewhere (at least this explains a lot regarding the questions you won't answer). As I've, very unsuccessfully, been trying to point out, they do not exist anywhere for this period.

This leaves us with 2 possibilities:

1) Uncritically accept the wildly inaccurate figures people noted down hundreds of years ago
2) Accept we'll never know accurate numbers, but try our best to apply a critical methodology to historical sources (and understanding that it's much easier to identify what is right, rather than wrong).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you think 2 is best.

We could, for example, compare rates to modern conflicts where we have a reasonable idea of what death at this scale actually looks like. Numbers without context are not analytically helpfully after all.

“World War II at its worst saw almost 300 battle deaths per 100,000 people per year. S. Pinker, Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress.

Scale this to a population of 70 million to approximate the population of India = 210,000 deaths per year

Your 80 million /400 years = 200,000 per year.

Not sure about you, but of someone told me an entire nation faced 400 years of growth and prosperity where their population was killed at a similar rate to people during the worst industrialised war in history, at its worst, I'd be quite sceptical at accepting these figures without very substantial evidence.

Not that you'll answer, but wouldn't you agree?

Maybe you think it was mostly peaceful with a few massive exterminations. In this case we'd probably expect to see some degree of population replacement as outsiders move in to take advantage of high quality, vacant land. Yet:

We find that the Muslim populations in general are genetically closer to their non-Muslim geographical neighbors than to other Muslims in India, and that there is a highly significant correlation between genetics and geography (but not religion). Our findings indicate that, despite the documented practice of marriage between Muslim men and Hindu women, Islamization in India did not involve large-scale replacement of Hindu Y chromosomes. The Muslim expansion in India was predominantly a cultural change and was not accompanied by significant gene flow, as seen in other places, such as China and Central Asia.
A Shared Y-chromosomal Heritage between Muslims and Hindus in India https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590854/

So to justify your 80 million (which you've never offered even a shred of evidence for), you have to believe a country can be growing and prosperous with a population being exterminated at the rate people during the worst period of WW2 for 4 centuries (coupled, obviously, with mass migration to escape being killed) yet with no significant population replacement via immigration.

Obviously you won't address this, and you will avoid answering even simple questions regarding your extensive 'research' and 'analysis' by which you determined 80 million to be a "conservative" estimate.

At least what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

And there you are wrong, i have repeatedly stated estimasted and that my figures are a median average of several history papers. You are now so obsessed that you are making stuff up to attempt to discredit me.

And i see you have still not presented any evidence.

 

[Augustus]

And there you are wrong, i have repeatedly stated estimasted and that my figures are a median average of several history papers. You are now so obsessed that you are making stuff up to attempt to discredit me.

Of course they are...

You obviously didn't copy the following, it's just coincidence that it's identical down to the missing space after the colon.

R: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Y: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000

It's just coincidence that the numbers, expression and punctuation are identical between your 'median average of several history papers' that you never link to and every single entry in a post on Reddit.

R: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Y: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000

R: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Y: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000

R: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Y: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000

R: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Y: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000

Happens all the time that someone's 'original research' is perfectly identical to something that appears in numerous places on the internet without it being plagiarised

At least we know your numbers came from credulously and uncritically repeating the first thing you found on the internet...

 

[ChristineM]

Of course they are...

You obviously didn't copy the following, it's just coincidence that it's identical down to the missing space after the colon.

R: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Y: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000

It's just coincidence that the numbers, expression and punctuation are identical between your 'median average of several history papers' that you never link to and every single entry in a post on Reddit.

R: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Y: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000

R: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Y: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000

R: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Y: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000

R: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Y: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000

Happens all the time that someone's 'original research' is perfectly identical to something that appears in numerous places on the internet without it being plagiarised

At least we know your numbers came from credulously and uncritically repeating the first thing you found on the internet...

So what does R and Y mean?
Let me guess, reddit and you (me)

If so please point out in my list the precise wording compared to the reddit wording as you indicate.

And you continue to make the accusation i use the first thing i found on the internet. FYI, i use google scholar and arxiv for my data, the figures averaged from several academic papers. I dont dont use reddit, i never have, the only times google has directed me there it says i must install the app and wont let me continue. No way in hell am i being forced to install an app just to look at a single website.

Of course you will try and mock this but i dont really give a toss. I know how i derived my estimations, you can only guess

And you have not once provided evidence to justify your claims so i i am done wasting my time on your obcession .

 

[Maximilian]

Actually, there is a bit of truth to this, when the Church and government became one with Constantine, the greed for money and power superseded the Christian sensibilities of many who claimed to be Christians, and in the name of Christianity, murder and genocide occurred.

And it was this apostasy which birthed the RCC. Christ promised at Matthew 13:24–30, 36–43, however, that his disciples would continue to thrive in spite of these.

 

[Augustus]

So what does R and Y mean?
Let me guess, reddit and you (me)

If so please point out in my list the precise wording compared to the reddit wording as you indicate.

So you don't actually read posts that you reply to? That's good to know.

Yes R = reddit chap and Y = you. That was already clearly explained in a previous post.

The precise wording is as shown in the last 2 posts I've made. I've given you the link twice. Same numbers, same odd expression, same punctuation, same punctuation errors

3rd time lucky....

How Many People Have Been Killed in the Name of Religion? : atheism

the text if you can't open it...

Posted byu/[deleted]4 years ago

How Many People Have Been Killed in the Name of Religion?

How many deaths have been caused by religion? Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls. Let me know if I missed any!

• The Crusades: 6,000,000
  
  
• Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
  
  
• French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
  
  
• Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
  
  
• Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
  
  
• Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
  
  
• Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
  
  
• Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
  
  
• Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
  
  
• Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
  
  
• Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
  
  
• Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
  
  
• First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
  
  
• Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
  
  
• The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
  
  
• Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
  
  
• Iraq War: 500,000
  
  
• US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
  
  
• Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
  
  
• Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
  
  
• AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
  
  
• Spanish Inquisition: 5,000
  
  
• TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.

Notice any similarities?

And you continue to make the accusation i use the first thing i found on the internet. FYI, i use google scholar and arxiv for my data, the figures averaged from several academic papers. I dont dont use reddit, i never have, the only times google has directed me there it says i must install the app and wont let me continue. No way in hell am i being forced to install an app just to look at a single website.

Yes, of course you did rigorous analysis to arrive at exactly the same list that appears on numerous internet atheist outlets and you are totally unable to discuss any of your research, analysis, or provide any links. Happens all the time.

People who invest as much time as you must have done carrying out original research usually love discussing it, you seem strangely reluctant to display any degree of understanding beyond repeating a single number as fact.

Maybe you didn't copy paste it from reddit, as I said, you and the reddit chap might have plagiarised from the same place (btw you don't have to install an app to view it on your phone, just continue via browser)

There is a 100% certainty that your info and that reddit post (from 4 years ago) involve copy/pasting the same info though. So unless he's plagiarising your original research...

You could easily clear this up by posting links to some of the many open access papers you've read on the subject demonstrating you did actually use them to reach your findings...

Of course you will try and mock this but i dont really give a toss. I know how i derived my estimations, you can only guess

I know how you derived your estimations too, the evidence is very clear and appears above. No need to guess

 

[Skreeper]

Commenting on what you don´t grasp is a big problem.

Then why have you been doing it for 20 pages and counting?

I am well aware what you fundagelicals think about secular morality. It's hardly news that you guys don't understand it.

 

[ChristineM]

I linked to the post earlier. Same numbers, same language, even same punctuation. This strange list seems to pop up in many places online and has some unusual expression and dodgy numbers which is why I recognised it.

Just a few entries, but there are many more. Reddit (link here) then You (from this post):

Reddit: Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
You: Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000

R: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Y: US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000

R: Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Y: Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000

R: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Y: Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000

R: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Y: The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000

R: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Y: Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000

R: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Y: AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000

Either you wrote the post, you copied parts of the post (or a derivative), or you and the poster copy/pasted parts of the same source. If there is another reason, please correct me and I'll apologise. Where did you get these from?



While I know this will be a complete waste of time...

You seem to believe accurate figures really do exist somewhere (at least this explains a lot regarding the questions you won't answer). As I've, very unsuccessfully, been trying to point out, they do not exist anywhere for this period.

This leaves us with 2 possibilities:

1) Uncritically accept the wildly inaccurate figures people noted down hundreds of years ago
2) Accept we'll never know accurate numbers, but try our best to apply a critical methodology to historical sources (and understanding that it's much easier to identify what is right, rather than wrong).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you think 2 is best.

We could, for example, compare rates to modern conflicts where we have a reasonable idea of what death at this scale actually looks like. Numbers without context are not analytically helpfully after all.

“World War II at its worst saw almost 300 battle deaths per 100,000 people per year. S. Pinker, Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress.

Scale this to a population of 70 million to approximate the population of India = 210,000 deaths per year

Your 80 million /400 years = 200,000 per year.

Not sure about you, but of someone told me an entire nation faced 400 years of growth and prosperity where their population was killed at a similar rate to people during the worst industrialised war in history, at its worst, I'd be quite sceptical at accepting these figures without very substantial evidence.

Not that you'll answer, but wouldn't you agree?

Maybe you think it was mostly peaceful with a few massive exterminations. In this case we'd probably expect to see some degree of population replacement as outsiders move in to take advantage of high quality, vacant land. Yet:

We find that the Muslim populations in general are genetically closer to their non-Muslim geographical neighbors than to other Muslims in India, and that there is a highly significant correlation between genetics and geography (but not religion). Our findings indicate that, despite the documented practice of marriage between Muslim men and Hindu women, Islamization in India did not involve large-scale replacement of Hindu Y chromosomes. The Muslim expansion in India was predominantly a cultural change and was not accompanied by significant gene flow, as seen in other places, such as China and Central Asia.
A Shared Y-chromosomal Heritage between Muslims and Hindus in India https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590854/

So to justify your 80 million (which you've never offered even a shred of evidence for), you have to believe a country can be growing and prosperous with a population being exterminated at the rate people during the worst period of WW2 for 4 centuries (coupled, obviously, with mass migration to escape being killed) yet with no significant population replacement via immigration.

Obviously you won't address this, and you will avoid answering even simple questions regarding your extensive 'research' and 'analysis' by which you determined 80 million to be a "conservative" estimate.

At least what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

Wow, perhaps they copied it off me, and there does seem to be several tens entries missing

Mughal India ~ The Biggest Holocaust in World History | SikhNet


And to justify your verbose objections you need to provide evidence that my figures are wrong.

 

[Curious George]

Not sure about you, but of someone told me an entire nation faced 400 years of growth and prosperity where their population was killed at a similar rate to people during the worst industrialised war in history, at its worst, I'd be quite sceptical at accepting these figures without very substantial evidence.

That was an equivocation. You moved from "battle deaths" to general deaths, fyi.

 

[usfan]

Which ones??

Which of the world's institutions indoctrinate Progressivism?

Which don't?

Legislation, judicial, news media, entertainment, academia, sports, seminaries, religious denominations,.. i can't really think of ONE human institution that is not steeped in progressive ideology. They promote it constantly, with a steady pounding of propaganda drums, while the bobbleheaded indoctrinees fall in line with submissive obeisance.

I don't know how anyone could say this with a straight face in the country with the highest Christian population in the world.
Is the majority being horribly oppressed by the minority? Gimme a break.

Seriously? You think 'Christianity,' is treated with dignity and respect? From where? ROFL!!

The media? Movies and entertainment? The Great Bastion of Academia, that cranks out hostile, anti-christian indoctrinees every year? The increasing militancy, overt religious bigotry, and constant smears and false narratives that are repeated constantly and loudly in public forums?



..'gimme a break'.. is right

But if we go for "an eye for an eye" no one is going to be left with any eyes.

Methinks that may be why Jesus spoke against revenge..

Of course you had no friendly intent, lets not be disingenuous.

ROFL!! Not like you, eh? All love, friendliness, and tolerance toward those who believe differently than you..

You only get to apologize on your own behalf.

Absolutely. Our sins, virtues, foibles, and flaws are ours, alone. No man can atone for the sins of another..

I have nothing personal against you,
I am, though, appalled by your attitude
and behaviour. That is a fact.

No, you seem hell bent on destroying and disparaging Christianity, and any who defend it from your hostile bigotry. Why pretend otherwise?

 

[Augustus]

Wow, perhaps they copied it off me, and there does seem to be several tens entries missing

None of which have numbers, strange that...

Maybe they copied from you 4 years ago, in which case you'll easily be able to link to the open-access journals you used to create your average of 80 million.

I won't hold my breath.

Mughal India ~ The Biggest Holocaust in World History | SikhNet

And to justify your verbose objections you need to provide evidence that my figures are wrong.

I've done that, you ignored it as you seem to want a nice round number that is equally fictitious. This kind of history is more about probabilities, not facts though. You seem unaware of this.

a) Historical numbers are wildly unreliable for numerous reasons (chiefly that they were never supposed to be accurate in the first place), so uncritically accepting historical data is naive (I provided numerous examples, although you actually gave the best example for this when you said the population of India was bigger than the population of the word).
b) 80 million requires the worst level of WW2 slaughter for 4 centuries with minimal population replacement, yet the population and prosperity were growing. Probabilistically, this is extremely unlikely which you would no doubt admit were you not emotionally invested in a random number.

Are you unaware that this is actually evidence?

You could make a case for why 80 million is plausible, but you seem unable to do this or answer extremely simple questions. You could provide your data, so I can point out why it is wrong, but obviously you don't have any.

Anyway, you'll not say anything of value on the above, but seeing as you read a lot of Arxiv, do you agree with these 2 points?

1. Accounts of war casualties are often anecdotal, spreading
via citations, and based on vague estimates, without anyone’s
ability to verify the assessments using period sources. For
instance, the independence war of Algeria has various esti-
mates, some from the French Army, others from the rebels,
and nothing scientifically obtained [19].

So the start point is not "Why shouldn't we believe them?", but "Why should we believe them?"


2. Conflicts, such as the Mongolian Invasions, which we refer
to as “named" conflicts, need to be treated with care from a sta-
tistical point of view. Named conflicts are in fact artificial tags
created by historians to aggregate events that share important
historical, geographical and political characteristics, but that
may have never really existed as a single event. Under the
portmanteau Mongolian Invasions (or Conquests), historians
collect all conflicts related to the expansion of the Mongol
empire during the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. Another
example is the so-called Hundred-Years’ War in the period
1337-1453. Aggregating all these events necessarily brings to
the creation of very large fictitious conflicts accounting for
hundreds of thousands or million casualties. The fact that, for
historical and historiographical reasons, these events tends to
be more present in antiquity and the Middle Ages could bring
to a naive overestimation of the severity of wars in the past.
Notice that named conflicts like the Mongolian Invasions are
different from those like WW1 or WW2, which naturally also
involved several tens of battles in very different locations, but
which took place in a much shorter time period, with no major
time separation among conflicts.

arxiv.org/pdf/1505.04722.pdf