Murderers and Rapists Claim to Hear from God

[SHANMAC]

Note: For those of you who are non-believers, please spare me the "because all you believers are insane" response or any response similar thereto.

Time and time again I see the clinically insane claim to hear from God. Moreover, since I do not have many occasions to meet or hear from the clinically insane, the comments often are coming from individuals who have just committed some heinous act of brutality and have ended up in a news story.

The most recent incident involves Garrido's abduction, rape and molestation of Dugard. Garrido claims he heard from God and was close with God throughout his heinous acts and most of his life. I just read another article about two killers in Russia who murdered and sometimes raped their vicitims because God allegedly told them to kill the sinners. No doubt, the list goes on and on.

My take on this is that these individuals are complete nutbags who did not hear from God at all. Additionally, I do beleive in a spiritual realm and believe these individuals could have been spiritually bankrupt to the point that the evil one would have little difficulty persuading them to commit these heinous acts in the name of God as a means to demean and detract from God. After all, the Bible indicates that the evil one and his followers masquerade as light and servants of righteousness. (2 Corin 11:14-15)

So, my question is this: are these people who claim to have committed these heinous acts (1) just plain nuts, psychologically; (2) deceived by the evil one and his followers; and/or (3) actually hearing from God. If you believe they are actually heraing from God, what God would this be and what is the basis for your answer?

 

[Sunstone]

It would be interesting to see how many of the cases of murderers and rapists hearing from god could be cleared up with adequate medication.

 

[dogsgod]

It only stands to reason that murderers and rapists claim to hear from God if one reads their Bible:



God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16

God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death. Genesis 4:3-5

Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.
God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9

Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7
Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the Israelites’ Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about this verse is that when god “hardens the pharaoh’s heart” he is interfering with the Pharaoh’s free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites himself with his “omnipotent” power.

God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7

God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6

God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus 21:7

Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the Inquisition.

Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don’t know about you but death is a pretty harsh ******* punishment.

Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.

Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus 20:13

Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat.”

Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.

Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.

Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.

Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to the Jews.

Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at Heshbon - “…the men, the women, and the little ones.”

Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.

Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.

Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance
A ******* can’t attend church “even to his tenth generation.” As if denying an innocent child rights to worship isn’t cruel. Deuteronomy 23:2ttp://www.evilbible.com/evils%20of%20the%20torah.htm

 

[conradxiong]

I don't think any strong arguments can be made. Religion or not, murderers and rapists are mentally ill. Nothing to do with religious beliefs. I'll go with 1), just plain nuts, psychologically.

 

[Enoch07]

So, my question is this: are these people who claim to have committed these heinous acts (1) just plain nuts, psychologically; (2) deceived by the evil one and his followers; and/or (3) actually hearing from God. If you believe they are actually heraing from God, what God would this be and what is the basis for your answer?

(1) just plain nuts, psychologically;

I think they are extremely confused and/or blame God in an attempt to try and "justify" their actions.

 

[kai]

Just plain nuts or lying!

 

[rageoftyrael]

All you theists are insane!

 

[sandandfoam]

Religion or not, murderers and rapists are mentally ill.

In the overwhelming majority of cases this is not so.

 

[Beaudreaux]

(1) just plain nuts, psychologically

 

[fantome profane]

Maybe "God" is the one that is just plain nuts.

 

[Kerr]

They are insane.

 

[Engyo]

Why do the voices in people's heads always tell them to do violent stuff?

I want to hear someone tell me about how the voices in their head told them to help an old lady across the street, or to volunteer at the local soup kitchen, or to donate all their money to help the homeless. I want to hear about the ones whose voices made them adopt needy animals, or cut their neighbor's lawn when the neighbor is sick. Or about the ones whose voices told them to let someone merge ahead of them on the freeway.

How come we never hear about folks with those kinds of "voices in the head"?

 

[Enoch07]

Why do the voices in people's heads always tell them to do violent stuff?

I want to hear someone tell me about how the voices in their head told them to help an old lady across the street, or to volunteer at the local soup kitchen, or to donate all their money to help the homeless. I want to hear about the ones whose voices made them adopt needy animals, or cut their neighbor's lawn when the neighbor is sick. Or about the ones whose voices told them to let someone merge ahead of them on the freeway.

How come we never hear about folks with those kinds of "voices in the head"?

You do but then people still call you crazy for being religious. Damned if you do damned if you don't hehe.

 

[SHANMAC]

Why do the voices in people's heads always tell them to do violent stuff?

I want to hear someone tell me about how the voices in their head told them to help an old lady across the street, or to volunteer at the local soup kitchen, or to donate all their money to help the homeless. I want to hear about the ones whose voices made them adopt needy animals, or cut their neighbor's lawn when the neighbor is sick. Or about the ones whose voices told them to let someone merge ahead of them on the freeway.

How come we never hear about folks with those kinds of "voices in the head"?

Great point. I'm guessing it's because being nice doesn't sell in the media.

 

[Arkholt]

Sadly enough, schizophrenia does exist, as do auditory hallucinations. Many times the "voices" are just in the person's head, and don't tell them to do any type of action, though they are often frightening and disconcerting to the person. Usually, though, when a "voice" tells someone to perform an action, it is an irrational behavior. Many people with these conditions believe that the "voices" they are hearing are coming from God or angels, or from Satan or other demons.

Pretty simple, really.

 

[MSizer]

In the overwhelming majority of cases this is not so.

Bingo! That's right! And that is why we have to ask ourselves what justifies civil punishment. Take countless cases where some guy molests kids or can't get along with his wife, then they scan his head, find a tumor, remove the tumor and he magically turns into a nice guy. Does this mean he's not to blame for his acts on the grounds that he did it as a result of his neural condition? The same case can be made from someone suffering of PTSD. If so, how is it that someone acts in any other way than but by their neural condition? Are the decisions of murderers the result of their brains, but the decisions of other people not the result of their brains? They're both equally guilty of being slaves to their own minds. That's a highly pressing question for humanity if we want to make the world a better place. How do we judge whether one should be penalized?

I'm sorry I didn't answer the question in the OP, but I sincerely think I'm opening up the thread to a pertinent consideration regarding the OP. I'll back off if you disagree. (and start my own 8D)

 

[SHANMAC]

Few thoughts:

I think you raise an important question that certainly is related to the original OP. Do you have any links to stories where this has happened; e.g. murderer/rapist turned into #1 dad after removal of tumor? I don't doubt that it has, as it seems very plausible - I just haven't seen any. That being said, I'm guessing this type of case would be fairly infrequent.

I'm assuming this is where the insanity (or some derivitive thereof) defense would come into play. It would have to come down to a case by case basis as to what, if any, penalty should be imposed.

Finally, and I think this goes to the bigger question you raise, it is a very slippery slope when one is vested with the power to determine which infirmities may alleviate one from criminal responsibility. If it can be medically/psychologically proven that a tumor inhibited a person's ability to choose right from wrong and the person can be "fixed," sure, let him go. If the person suffers from PTSD or a related neural issue that cannot be "fixed" by physically removing the faulty piece of hardware, I'm not so sure. I'm guessing that's why we have asylums where people get treated in lieu of incarceration.

 

[conradxiong]

In the overwhelming majority of cases this is not so.

Well maybe not 'mentally ill', but they're obviously not normal. If something leads you to murder and rape, there is something about your mind that is not functioning as it should.

 

[MSizer]

Few thoughts:

I think you raise an important question that certainly is related to the original OP. Do you have any links to stories where this has happened; e.g. murderer/rapist turned into #1 dad after removal of tumor? I don't doubt that it has, as it seems very plausible - I just haven't seen any. That being said, I'm guessing this type of case would be fairly infrequent.

I googled and found this one. I remember hearing about it before. I know I've heard about others too. I remember one couple that spent 25 Gs on councelling, after which the psych just said "I give up, you just need a divorce" then they found a tumor in the husband's head, and he became a different guy after it's removal. Also, children with frontal liesions are known to not develop normal senses of right and wrong.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It seems as equally as plausible that god told someone to commit murder as god telling anyone anything else.