Muslim Reform Movement

[The_Fisher_King]

This seems fantastic to me. A group of Muslim scholars (albeit from "the West"), who are addressing the problems of modern Islam, and seem to be addressing those problems honestly!

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7009/muslim-reform-movement

I'm especially interested in hearing what the Muslims at RF think about this declaration, but of course everyone can pile on

(I have to confess they had me when they mentioned the UN Declaration of Human Rights.)

There are certainly problems with the way many Muslims interpret Allaah's Word and the teachings of Muhammad (s), and there are lots of important principles here, but I cannot accept the notion of secular governance. For me, the only legitimate basis for the governance of a state is Allaah's Laws, and we as Muslims should strive to establish a truly Islaamic State (the so-called Islamic State in Iraq and Syria is not a truly Islaamic State, nor for that matter are other 'Islamic Republics', such as Iran and Pakistan).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

paarsurrey said: ↑
So, there is no Jizya imposed, in any country of the world, these days. In other words in a sense, I believe, it confirms the truthful prophecy of Muhammad.

Narrated Abu Huraira(RA) that the Prophet of Allah(SAW) said:

By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, Son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pigand abolish the Jizyah . Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts.(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Book 34, No. 425)

Who does on mean by MGM? Please
Regards

Whilst there is certainly abundance of money in some parts, there are still a great many people around the world accepting charitable gifts...

 

[paarsurrey]

Whilst there is certainly abundance of money in some parts, there are still a great many people around the world accepting charitable gifts...

It is not material or monetary wealth meant there.one should understand that these are the spiritual treasures that the Messiah is to distribute and that the people will refuse to accept.
Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It is not material or monetary wealth meant there.one should understand that these are the spiritual treasures that the Messiah is to distribute and that the people will refuse to accept.
Regards

Arguably, the combination of references to abundance of money and to charitable gifts in the same sentence suggests that the Prophet (s) had in mind monetary/similar forms of charitable gifts in this sentence.

 

[paarsurrey]

Arguably, the combination of references to abundance of money and to charitable gifts in the same sentence suggests that the Prophet (s) had in mind monetary/similar forms of charitable gifts in this sentence.

I don't think so.

[2:270]He grants wisdom to whom He pleases, and whoever is granted wisdom has indeed been granted abundant good; and none would be reminded except those endowed with understanding.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=269​

Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I don't think so.

[2:270]He grants wisdom to whom He pleases, and whoever is granted wisdom has indeed been granted abundant good; and none would be reminded except those endowed with understanding.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=269​

Regards

Can't argue with these Words, of course, but I'm not sure this Verse really justifies your argument here. But to each their own understanding.

 

[paarsurrey]

Can't argue with these Words, of course, but I'm not sure this Verse really justifies your argument here. But to each their own understanding.

The truthful Religion is to enhance ethical, moral and spiritual faculties of man, so it is very truthful to interpret in terms of these faculties in matters of religion; and if it is from Quran then there cannot be more accurate interpretation than that, there is no doubt about it.
The matter under discussion pertains to a prophecy of Muhammad about the advent of Promised Messiah and Imam-Mahdi as a successor/caliph of Muhammad in the Muslim Um-mah appointed by G-d, this Caliphate is mentioned in Quran:

[24:56]Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me,and they will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.
[24:57]And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=24&verse=56​

The signs of truthful Caliphate are colored in magenta above.
Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The truthful Religion is to enhance ethical, moral and spiritual faculties of man, so it is very truthful to interpret in terms of these faculties in matters of religion; and if it is from Quran then there cannot be more accurate interpretation than that, there is no doubt about it.
The matter under discussion pertains to a prophecy of Muhammad about the advent of Promised Messiah and Imam-Mahdi as a successor/caliph of Muhammad in the Muslim Um-mah appointed by G-d, this Caliphate is mentioned in Quran:

[24:56]Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me,and they will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.
[24:57]And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=24&verse=56​

The signs of truthful Caliphate are colored in magenta above.
Regards

With respect, I don't see how most of this relates to the specific point of the meaning of 'Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts.'

 

[paarsurrey]

With respect, I don't see how most of this relates to the specific point of the meaning of 'Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts.'

The Caliphate is not for worldly or material matters, that point is very much clear in the verses [24:56] and [24:57].
That is the point.
Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The Caliphate is not for worldly or material matters, that point is very much clear in the verses [24:56] and [24:57].
That is the point.
Regards

Okay, I see your reasoning. But I'm afraid I don't buy it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Okay, I see your reasoning. But I'm afraid I don't buy it.

It is OK, I don't sell anything. Please
Regards