Muslims and Christians

[Sunstone]

:yes: I'm a Christian and I believe that Christianity is religion all by itself. I believe every other belief on earth is not from God, but from man's own thinking.
Jesus Christ is God.
He became flesh to die for us. He rose from the dead, he ascended on high, is coming back to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe Joseph Smith, Muhammed, Guatama Buddah, and all the others who call themselves prophets will bow before Jesus and confess that he alone is LORD.
Islam came along millenniums after Moses (at Sinai) recieved from God all the world needs.
Everything Islam teaches has already been said.
Moses said it all in those 613 commandments.
Their Koran says that God doesn't have a Son.
Christianity knows that Jesus is the Son of God.
Muhammed learned from Christians and Jews that God is one (monotheism) and if Christians had succeeded in getting him saved and converted in the 6th century AD, there would be no Islam today.

What's all that have to do with the OP?

 

[Katzpur]

The above is a quote from rojse in the Islam contribution thread. It got me thinking that it's right on the money. The muslims and the christians are always at each others throats, but why?

Pride, maybe?

To both christians and muslims, do you think we could ever have peaceful and productive interaction with one another?

Obviously some of us already do.

For christians, would you ever read the Quran?

I certainly would have no objection to reading it. Reading scripture is really tedious for me, though, and that includes the Book of Mormon.

Admit it if you come across anything you find to be true within Islam?

That part's a no-brainer. Mormonism teaches that we should embrace truth wherever we may find it.

Can we get along peacefully, without finding one to be the enemy of the other? How much does a christian even know about Islam and vice verse for muslims?

I've commented on many occasions that Mormonism and Islam have much in common. I believe that focusing on the beliefs that we share is an important first step.

 

[Katzpur]

I believe Joseph Smith, Muhammed, Guatama Buddah, and all the others who call themselves prophets will bow before Jesus and confess that he alone is LORD.

Well, in case you're interested, Joseph Smith has already done that. That is, after all, what he taught throughout his life. Now might we get back to the topic of the OP?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

:yes: I'm a Christian and I believe that Christianity is religion all by itself. I believe every other belief on earth is not from God, but from man's own thinking.
Jesus Christ is God.
He became flesh to die for us. He rose from the dead, he ascended on high, is coming back to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe Joseph Smith, Muhammed, Guatama Buddah, and all the others who call themselves prophets will bow before Jesus and confess that he alone is LORD.
Islam came along millenniums after Moses (at Sinai) recieved from God all the world needs.
Everything Islam teaches has already been said.
Moses said it all in those 613 commandments.
Their Koran says that God doesn't have a Son.
Christianity knows that Jesus is the Son of God.
Muhammed learned from Christians and Jews that God is one (monotheism) and if Christians had succeeded in getting him saved and converted in the 6th century AD, there would be no Islam today.

Excellent!!! This is what i am talking about really. This post has everything to do with the OP because it states without really saying it, why we can't communicate. See what we fail to realize is that listening does not mean we must accept it and take into our hearts. Because she is so sure Muhammad is false, it doesn't matter what truth he says, because she most likely won't read to find out. No doubt many muslims feel the same.

See it is not blameworthy to have a strong faith. I myself have it, and am well sure I will not be swayed against it (insha Allah), but I also have no problem to listen and learn.

See the problem ain't so much that we don't understand each other, but that we dont want to, and that is dangerous. Why have the many misconceptions about Islam festered for so long? Because people are content to believe that that which they dislike is as evil and twisted as they want to believe it is. Instead of saying well Islam is wrong because it makes no sense, or their concept of God is false, people say Islam is wrong because it is evil, and muslims follow satan. I have rearely heard that particular accusation coming from muslims to christians, even among the misconceptions some muslims hold about christianity. We do not believe christians are evil, or worshipping shaytan only that they are mistaken about Jesus' identity.

I'd like to hear if or what kind of misconceptions muslims hold about christians. I am in america so since we are surrounded by christians, the chance to have wrong ideas about the religion is close to nil. I wonder if certain wrong info is spread in predominantly muslim countries.

 

[wizanda]

I will always give people the benefit of the doubt....
Your impressions of Christ are wrong completely they follow the Pharisees (Paul, John and Simon the stone (peter), your impression of Mohammed is tampered with and how can anyone read the Quran in English and speak of its beauties (says only Arabic)?
These are all traditions passed down, and sit in defence of the books....
Mohammed from our time-line came soon after the canonization of the Bible....
Now Yeshua (Isa) is correct he says, yet those who spoke after, deny the one true God....
So "Begotten son" only recorded in the gospel of John Nicodemus a Pharisee is false....
Rev 2:14-15
(14) But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
(15) So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Luk 21:8
(8) And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I (EGO) am (I-Mee) Christ; and the time “draweth near” ([FONT=&quot]eggizo&#772[/FONT]: go ye not therefore after them.

EGO I-Mee as if Christ said any of it is in John.
“eggizō” is Simon the stone (peter) and Paul/Saul the murderer of the faithful.

 

[UnityNow101]

Muslims and Christians can and should have meaningful discussions amongst each other along with Jews, Hindus, Bahai's, Buddhists, etc... I believe that if we could begin to see the similarities between all, maybe there is hope that we could live in religious harmony. We see the beginnings of it here in America to a certain degree. Religious ignorance is beginning to fade in light of tolerance and diversity, which is a good thing.

 

[wizanda]

Muslims and Christians can and should have meaningful discussions amongst each other along with Jews, Hindus, Bahai's, Buddhists, etc... I believe that if we could begin to see the similarities between all, maybe there is hope that we could live in religious harmony. We see the beginnings of it here in America to a certain degree. Religious ignorance is beginning to fade in light of tolerance and diversity, which is a good thing.

That is what spent my life looking for and was sent from heaven for (idea started about 5 years old = Conscious)....
Yet to do that we need to end the fake religion and follow Yeshua's really.....
Which personally discovered raised in a Christian family and God showed the Bible to understand….
Read the Quran afterwards for extra details....
Yet without anyone else wanting to do this, other then a few with a Mustard seed, it is an uphill struggle.....

 

[Crowley]

Fullyveiled Muslimah said; "..........they are mistaken about Jesus' identity."
:yes: Jesus rose from the dead. :no: Muhammed did not and cannot. :yes: Jesus is alive and well reigning on high and in the hearts of Christians. :yes: All who serve Jesus know him to be alive.
A former Muslim Nassir Sadikki also saw Jesus. This ex-Muslim was dying in a hospital, his organs were shutting down and he heard the doctors say he will die. He was afraid to die. Nassir Sadikki said he knew that Allah didn't heal, so in desperation he called on the God of the Christians. He said that Jesus Christ walked into his hospital room and told him, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I am the God of the Christians."
Jesus did heal him completely and now he is a minister of the gospel of Christ.
Your prophet is dead. Your God cannot heal.
Jesus is alive, Muhammed is dead and that is why we cannot communicate.
Christianity has a living God Jesus.
I have read the Koran, not because I believe it, but out of curiousity.
It plainly says in it that Allah doesn't have a son. I agree with that and also know there is no Allah.
But Yahweh of the Old Testament has a Son. He is Jesus, God manifested in the flesh.
The difference between Jesus and the idea of Allah is limitless.
Maybe you wouldn't mind telling me what Allah has done for you.
I will be glad to tell you what Jesus has done for me.
There is a difference.

 

[Smoke]

If we could have fair competiton of our messages without threat or fear of violence - full freedom to proclaim each others message to each other, public debates where we are free to speak openely, even in Saudi Arabia and Iran we would not be fighting.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that. And that may be a blessing in disguise; considering how they both operate, I can't think of anything more tragic for humanity than Muslims and Christians learning to work together.

 

[Crowley]

Fullyveiled Muslimah said; "Because she is so sure Muhammad is false, it doesn't matter what truth he says, because she most likely won't read to find out."
I am sure Muhammed is dead. There is no reason to follow a dead person. Can you give me a reason?
I own a copy of the Koran. I have it for the same reason I have a book of Mormon and other books that teach me about Buddhism, Hindusim, etc.
I use them to quote from when I perhaps debate someone who is not a Christian.
Here is the thing; when God handed down to Moses from a burning smoking mountain the law, it contained all the world needs. How can you improve on Thou shalt not murder, commit adultery, lie, steal, covet, bear false witness, etc?
The Koran was written over a period of twenty years, over 2500 years after Moses recieved the law. The Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by different authors who didn't know each other yet all agreed.
The Koran doesn't have the book of Daniel, which tells the future of the world.
I had a Muslim quote from John that Jesus is not that Prophet of Deuteronomy 18, yet the apostle Peter said Jesus is that Prophet “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: ( Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.” Acts 3.20-22 (bold type mine)
and Jesus said he is;
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. John 5.45-46 (bold type mine)

So, that is why we cannot communicate. I cannot dismiss the Bible to believe the Koran and the Koran was written millenniums after the law, which law was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the Prophet like unto Moses; male babies were killed when Jesus and Moses were born.
The children of Israel were baptized into Moses, the church is baptized into Christ.
Both are descendents of Isaac. Moses recieved the law. Jesus fulfilled it. Both came out of Egypt. Their faces shone in God's presence. Jesus and Moses were Hebrews (Jews)
Many many similarities.
Their bodies cannot be found. And the list goes on.
Give me a reason why I should believe Muhammed is a prophet.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Fullyveiled Muslimah said; "Because she is so sure Muhammad is false, it doesn't matter what truth he says, because she most likely won't read to find out."
I am sure Muhammed is dead. There is no reason to follow a dead person. Can you give me a reason?
I own a copy of the Koran. I have it for the same reason I have a book of Mormon and other books that teach me about Buddhism, Hindusim, etc.
I use them to quote from when I perhaps debate someone who is not a Christian.
Here is the thing; when God handed down to Moses from a burning smoking mountain the law, it contained all the world needs. How can you improve on Thou shalt not murder, commit adultery, lie, steal, covet, bear false witness, etc?
The Koran was written over a period of twenty years, over 2500 years after Moses recieved the law. The Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by different authors who didn't know each other yet all agreed.
The Koran doesn't have the book of Daniel, which tells the future of the world.
I had a Muslim quote from John that Jesus is not that Prophet of Deuteronomy 18, yet the apostle Peter said Jesus is that Prophet “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: ( Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.” Acts 3.20-22 (bold type mine)
and Jesus said he is;
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. John 5.45-46 (bold type mine)

So, that is why we cannot communicate. I cannot dismiss the Bible to believe the Koran and the Koran was written millenniums after the law, which law was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the Prophet like unto Moses; male babies were killed when Jesus and Moses were born.
The children of Israel were baptized into Moses, the church is baptized into Christ.
Both are descendents of Isaac. Moses recieved the law. Jesus fulfilled it. Both came out of Egypt. Their faces shone in God's presence. Jesus and Moses were Hebrews (Jews)
Many many similarities.
Their bodies cannot be found. And the list goes on.
Give me a reason why I should believe Muhammed is a prophet.

You're missing the boat, and the point of this thread. I do not want to argue or convince you that Muhammad (saw) is a prophet. However you seemt o think that communication between, and understanding of another POV means you must accept it.

You are demonstrating exactly why muslims and christians can never sit long enough to learn anything form each other, or discover that there are in fact many similarities. You seem more interested in discrediting the whole of Islam then hearing it from the muslims what it truly is, from their POV.

Take a lesson from your brother *Paul*. He is a firm christian, yet he and I have had numerous discussions on some of the key concepts of Islam. He still rejects it, but that wasn't the point of his asking. He wished to form his own opinion rather than stick blindly to old misguided notions about Islam. He expresses his distaste for Islam many times, but I can respect that because he has formulated such an opinion after learning at least the basics. He and I have been able to forge an amicable repor with each other. He listens to me, I listen to him, we disagree, we move on. Simple. Easy. And I can't for the life of me understand why that can't happen on a larger scale.

 

[Crowley]

I understand. I asked you to show me why I should believe Muhammed is a prophet.
Before I could listen, I need proof that he is indeed a prophet.
A prophet has a firm grasp of God's word and also is able to tell the future, such as the Hebrew prophets.
What "revelation" does Muhammed have that wasn't given to Moses?
I simply ask for proof of his prophethood.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

That boat is floatin on by ain't it............

I'm going to say this one more time and I'm not going to say it again. The point of this thread is to figure out why the muslims and the christians cannot forge at minimum an amicable relationship where we aren't spreading rumors about each other, and we can at least come to understand each other's POV. The point IS NOT to try to convert each other, or make a christian agree with Islam, and thusly become muslim. I do not wish to make anyone accept Allah, Quran, Muhammad(saw), or any other tenet of Islam.

Are we clear now? Got it? Good.

 

[Bishka]

That boat is floatin on by ain't it............

I'm going to say this one more time and I'm not going to say it again. The point of this thread is to figure out why the muslims and the christians cannot forge at minimum an amicable relationship where we aren't spreading rumors about each other, and we can at least come to understand each other's POV. The point IS NOT to try to convert each other, or make a christian agree with Islam, and thusly become muslim. I do not wish to make anyone accept Allah, Quran, Muhammad(saw), or any other tenet of Islam.

Are we clear now? Got it? Good.

Why anyone wouldn't understand that it the beginning is beyond me. I've always tried to have good relations with my Muslim friends. :yes:

 

[Gentoo]

Most conflicts are due to a failure to listen. I think it's sad that some people don't know how to close their mouths and open their ears. How do they expect to learn anything otherwise?

 

[Ringer]

I believe that we can get along but as others have stated, only to a certain extent. I personally only knew one muslim at my previous work place and we got along just fine obviously. But there are major doctrinal differences that create a rift between the two in the religious arena. As far as Christianity is concerned, how do you embrace a world that so readily pluralistic when the gospel message is one of exclusivity?

 

[lunamoth]

To both christians and muslims, do you think we could ever have peaceful and productive interaction with one another?

Absolutely. We have already I think (although it is not broadcast as much as the animosity is)...we just need to exapnd upon that.

For christians, would you ever read the Quran?

I've read it in parts. I think I would really need an Islamic study guide to get much out of it though. As it is I would love the parts that are familiar and similar to what I already beleive, and be infuriated over the parts that I don't fully understand but seem to point to violence, superiority and exclusion. Just like when I read the Bible on my own the first time and was infuriated over the passages that point to violence, superiority and exclusion.

Admit it if you come across anything you find to be true within Islam?

Sure...Islam has many beautiful ideals.

Why or why not? Can we get along peacefully, without finding one to be the enemy of the other? How much does a christian even know about Islam and vice verse for muslims?

Of course we can get along peacefully. We can embrace and focus on what we have in common and respect the things that are different between us. Respect includes not trying to convert each other, but does not rule out informing each other about our beliefs and having good communication with each other. A Christian should learn about Islam from Muslims...not other Christians, and Mulsims learn Christianity from Christians, not other Muslims. One observation/opinion: when we focus on God's love we do OK.

 

[Popeyesays]

I believe that we can get along but as others have stated, only to a certain extent. I personally only knew one muslim at my previous work place and we got along just fine obviously. But there are major doctrinal differences that create a rift between the two in the religious arena. As far as Christianity is concerned, how do you embrace a world that so readily pluralistic when the gospel message is one of exclusivity?

If the Message of God does come from more than One Messenger then exlucsivity is NOT the Message of God.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Ringer]

If the Message of God does come from more than One Messenger then exlucsivity is NOT the Message of God.

John 14:5-7
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

I believe Jesus very profoundly asserts the exclusivity on how to reach God. Other messengers may come and go but nobody before and since has made such a bold statement. But, I disgress and is for another topic.

 

[Popeyesays]

John 14:5-7
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

I believe Jesus very profoundly asserts the exclusivity on how to reach God. Other messengers may come and go but nobody before and since has made such a bold statement. But, I disgress and is for another topic.

Actually, I agree totally. However, since the same Christ Spirit ws in Moses, or Abraham, Muhammad or Zoroaster, Buddha or the Bab and Baha`u'llah as well, each one of Them said much the same thing and They were all right.

Regards,
Scott