Muslims and Jews

[arimoff]

The occupation of Palestine is not because it is a Muslim country, even though that made it easier for them. But they have their religious reasons and it happened to be a Muslim country. They consider it their Holy land as much as we do. Of course It does not justify their occupation at all, but being a muslim country is not the main reason they chose Palestine.

Now the other part of the story is that if Palestine was a Christian country, then the world would not have supported the occupation, this is a fact. EDIT: well, it cannot be a fact because it did not happen, but highly probably.

It is partly our fault as muslims for being weak at that time (and now) which allowed them to take advantage over us. Partly because the world does not care about Muslims, and they sympathize with the Jews for what happened to the them in Europe. What's shameful is that Zionists chose to do to Palestinians what is worst than what was done to them by others, not by Palestinians or Muslims.

Judaism is a Religion, Zionism is a political movement with extremist religious beliefs.

The occupation of Iraq is to support Israel, to gain access to large natural resources, to expand their influence over the middle east region, therefore strengthening their world dominance . It is not a religious war against Muslims, but being a Muslim country, it was easy for them to gain support from their people and other countries. In other parts of the world, they did not have to invade them to place military bases.

It seems i will be flamed by everyone for my statements.

Your words exactly show the hidden hate towards Jews, it is really not correct on your part to say that Jews attacked that country because it is a Muslim country, our believes don't have any agenda towards Islam, Islam didn't even exist back then.

With regards to holocaust I have nothing but disgusting words for you if you are comparing both. Go educate your self with regards to Judaism and holocaust and then come re-read your comments, see how stupid they are.

clearly shows the level of education in Muslim society, it is full of hate towards one group of people and it is not even the truth.

 

[Starsoul]

The Hamas who have sent suicide bombers to marketplaces, bus stops, at wedding reception; these are civilian targets, and the Hamas tried to justify their attacks with the use of the Qur'an, and declaring Jihad against Israeli. They considered these civilian targets to be justifiable on the ground of Israeli invasions to their lands. Surely you have seen those videos by those terrorists before the attacks are made on civilian targets.
Do you deny they don't target civilian targets in their jihads?

So don't us that only non-Muslims misuse your Qur'an. Muslims do it themselves, especially if they have agenda.

First of All, you've got all the facts juxtaposed. One has to go through history in detail to understand whats really happening. Its zionists who forcibly occupied the arab land adjacent to israel to claim it their own, the forced occupation of the land of the muslims was started by the now called 'Israelis'. Muslims have all the right to re-claim their land, and the past few decades have proved to be the worst examples of injustice and cruelty met to the palestinians by israelis.
Everybody must have seen how the israelis attacked the peace flotilla meant to help out people in the gaza strip, such is the darkness of israelis that they cannot even 'see' the muslims being helped by the international community. And considering the fact the flotilla only carried goods for the poor people who have all their trade shunned from all the borders that they have.

One has to be really blind and cruel to not see the injustice being done to the palestinians. The israeli army, infront of the whole world, killed, fired bullets, beat up and tortured civilians and journislists who came from all over the world, including asia, middles east and europe. And to say that hamas kills civilians, is saying like the fly eats the frog. All israelis serve in the army, they all form a part of their army and remain armed with latest weapons and protection systems. And nobody has the courage to point that out, the media plays the game by quoting events in favor of israel ,no matter what the ground reality is.
You probably havent seen how israelis army men treat the women and children of palestinian, who are all unarmed.
The strange thing is, you would think since hamas only attacks civilians, then more israeli civilians would die then the palestinians, but hamas with their rockets cant even aim enough to kill like 9 israelis, meanwhile israelis using state of the art precision weapons still "accidentally" bomb Bridges, Dams, Power stations, Schools, Hospitals and homes in palestines. The weapons israel has are so accurate they could shoot a missle through a window in a building, without even seeing it with their eyes, and all this is just not ACCIDENTAL. One can find several videos of their brutality of killing civilians, and none by hamas. Here i have to add that I am only stating the facts and not taking any sides.

 

[Starsoul]

These are just a few who, among others , which might find their place in the removed videos like all real videos get removed from the internet by some strange phenomenon.
Nobel peace prize winner shot by israelis
Israeli military shoot gaza farmer.
jewish hate caught on tape.

 

[gnostic]

A simple example is that if i talk badly about x religion just to ridicule it and upset its followers. Then i am declaring war on that religion and i don't expect love and roses from them.
If i debate that religion without intentionally hurting the followers, then i would simply expect people to correct me, or agree to disagree with me.

It is obvious that some people hate Islam and every Muslim and don't want to discuss and debate, they just want to ridicule and attack. I have zero respect for these people and i do have a lot of problems with them.

It is everybody's right to consider those who hate and attack him as enemies and treat them as such.

There are always people who would be offended, whether what the people say were offensive or not.

If there are spite in the ridicules or hated in the tones, I still think that it is still not a declaration of war on Islam. Yes, there are biased and hatred involved among some people, but if you think or believe that has something against your religion, then the best thing is to simply ignoring the person or walk away.

Talking back at them, by trading insults will not work. Resorting to violence will only make matter worse, and you may be giving the hateful person what he want - physical confrontation - will only confirm in his or her sick mind that he or she was right.

The thing with violence is that it is something that you can't take back once the action is taken or you may regret your action.

 

[tmThEMaN]

Your words exactly show the hidden hate towards Jews, it is really not correct on your part to say that Jews attacked that country because it is a Muslim country, our believes don't have any agenda towards Islam, Islam didn't even exist back then.

With regards to holocaust I have nothing but disgusting words for you if you are comparing both. Go educate your self with regards to Judaism and holocaust and then come re-read your comments, see how stupid they are.

clearly shows the level of education in Muslim society, it is full of hate towards one group of people and it is not even the truth.

???!!!

Did you actually read what i posted ?!

 

[Sufi]

Do most muslims have a problem with jewish people or is it just the palestinians that have a problem with them?

Muslims dont hate or even dislike Jews they are classified as Ahlul Kitab(People of the Book) and are a respected community.

Dont forget that Jews had their golden age in Islamic Spain (al Andalus)

Zionism is a problematic ideology and if i did my research well the founding fathers of Zionism/Modern State of Israel were Atheists.

Yes we oppose and dislike Zionism/Modern Israeli State but we dont hate or dislike Jews as a religious group or a people.

 

[tmThEMaN]

First of All, you've got all the facts juxtaposed. One has to go through history in detail to understand whats really happening. Its zionists who forcibly occupied the arab land adjacent to israel to claim it their own, the forced occupation of the land of the muslims was started by the now called 'Israelis'. Muslims have all the right to re-claim their land, and the past few decades have proved to be the worst examples of injustice and cruelty met to the palestinians by israelis.
Everybody must have seen how the israelis attacked the peace flotilla meant to help out people in the gaza strip, such is the darkness of israelis that they cannot even 'see' the muslims being helped by the international community. And considering the fact the flotilla only carried goods for the poor people who have all their trade shunned from all the borders that they have.

One has to be really blind and cruel to not see the injustice being done to the palestinians. The israeli army, infront of the whole world, killed, fired bullets, beat up and tortured civilians and journislists who came from all over the world, including asia, middles east and europe. And to say that hamas kills civilians, is saying like the fly eats the frog. All israelis serve in the army, they all form a part of their army and remain armed with latest weapons and protection systems. And nobody has the courage to point that out, the media plays the game by quoting events in favor of israel ,no matter what the ground reality is.
You probably havent seen how israelis army men treat the women and children of palestinian, who are all unarmed.
The strange thing is, you would think since hamas only attacks civilians, then more israeli civilians would die then the palestinians, but hamas with their rockets cant even aim enough to kill like 9 israelis, meanwhile israelis using state of the art precision weapons still "accidentally" bomb Bridges, Dams, Power stations, Schools, Hospitals and homes in palestines. The weapons israel has are so accurate they could shoot a missle through a window in a building, without even seeing it with their eyes, and all this is just not ACCIDENTAL. One can find several videos of their brutality of killing civilians, and none by hamas. Here i have to add that I am only stating the facts and not taking any sides.

I agree with Starsoul.
The situation in Palestine is very sad. The Arab-Israeli conflict is maybe the biggest problem between the middle east and the west. Without this , things would've been much better for sure. The Iraq invasion did not help at all and the US is not very welcome.

It is important to distinguish political conflicts from religious. What Hammas is doing is not because they are Muslim, it is a basic human instinct to defend one's land and try to protect it and reclaim it in any way possible. No one in the world can deny the right of an occupied nation to reclaim it's land.
Hammas could've been any religion and they would still do the same. Islam at the same time does not prevent us from defending our land, we do not turn the other cheek.

 

[arimoff]

???!!!

Did you actually read what i posted ?!

Yes I did maybe you should read again.

 

[arimoff]

Muslims dont hate or even dislike Jews they are classified as Ahlul Kitab(People of the Book) and are a respected community.

Dont forget that Jews had their golden age in Islamic Spain (al Andalus)

Zionism is a problematic ideology and if i did my research well the founding fathers of Zionism/Modern State of Israel were Atheists.

Yes we oppose and dislike Zionism/Modern Israeli State but we dont hate or dislike Jews as a religious group or a people.

If you consider the way Jews lived under Muslim rule in Spain as good then you don't deserve any better then that.

 

[tmThEMaN]

The occupation of Palestine is not because it is a Muslim country, even though that made it easier for them. But they have their religious reasons and it happened to be a Muslim country. They consider it their Holy land as much as we do. Of course It does not justify their occupation at all, but being a muslim country is not the main reason they chose Palestine.

Yes I did maybe you should read again.

Can you read what i marked as bold again and tell me that i'm a jew hater, not a Zionism hater?!

Judaism is a Religion, Zionism is a political movement with extremist religious beliefs.

Ok, i think i should have put a DOT instead of comma in this phrase. If that's what caused the misunderstanding, then my bad.

 

[tmThEMaN]

If you consider the way Jews lived under Muslim rule in Spain as good then you don't deserve any better then that.

I'm from Syria, my grand father used to tell us about the times when Jews where living together with Muslims peacefully just like Christians do nowadays. There used to be neighborhoods of Jews and they were treated as any other Syrian. Just like Christians in Syria do today.

But they all moved to Palestine after the occupation.

 

[jmvizanko]

Zionism is a problematic ideology and if i did my research well the founding fathers of Zionism/Modern State of Israel were Atheists.

Care to share your research? Most of the atheists I have talked with about it are actually not big fans. Plus I can't see how there is anything about atheism, a basic philosophical stance, that would lead to supporting Zionism.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Both sides are always so quick to play the victim. You're both wrong. Jews murder Muslims on the daily and hide behind the Holocaust to label anyone that opposes Zionism as an anti-Semite. Muslims blow up Jewish civilians who had nothing to do with the Israeli invasion and say they are defending their homeland. All for ownership of a bunch of monuments to people who didn't even exist. From an outside perspective, you can't say that either side is right, and the whole issue is just ridiculous.

 

[kai]

I'm from Syria, my grand father used to tell us about the times when Jews where living together with Muslims peacefully just like Christians do nowadays. There used to be neighborhoods of Jews and they were treated as any other Syrian. Just like Christians in Syria do today.

But they all moved to Palestine after the occupation.

I beleive the largest community of Syrian Jews live in New York. I think it was a condition imposed by Assad of them the being allowed to leave that they didn't go to Israel.



In the nineteenth century the commercial importance of Aleppo and Damascus underwent a marked decline. Beginning around 1850, and with increasing frequency until the First World War, many families left Syria for Egypt, and later moved from there to Manchester in England, often following the cotton trade.[40] Later still a considerable number left Manchester for Latin America, in particular Mexico and Argentina. From around 1908, many Syrian Jews migrated to New York, where the Brooklyn community is now the world's largest single Syrian Jewish community. For these communities at the present day, see Syrian Jews.
With anti-Jewish feeling reaching a climax in the late 1930s and early 1940s, many Jews considered emigrating. Between 1942 and 1947, around 4,500 Jews arrived in Palestine from Syria and Lebanon.[41] In August 1949, the Menarsha synagogue was attacked in Damascus. 12 people were killed and dozens injured.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Syria



and a quick look around tells me everything wasnt quite that rosey;



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/syrianjews.html

 

[tmThEMaN]

I beleive the largest community of Syrian Jews live in New York. I think it was a condition imposed by Assad of them the being allowed to leave that they didn't go to Israel.



In the nineteenth century the commercial importance of Aleppo and Damascus underwent a marked decline. Beginning around 1850, and with increasing frequency until the First World War, many families left Syria for Egypt, and later moved from there to Manchester in England, often following the cotton trade.[40] Later still a considerable number left Manchester for Latin America, in particular Mexico and Argentina. From around 1908, many Syrian Jews migrated to New York, where the Brooklyn community is now the world's largest single Syrian Jewish community. For these communities at the present day, see Syrian Jews.
With anti-Jewish feeling reaching a climax in the late 1930s and early 1940s, many Jews considered emigrating. Between 1942 and 1947, around 4,500 Jews arrived in Palestine from Syria and Lebanon.[41] In August 1949, the Menarsha synagogue was attacked in Damascus. 12 people were killed and dozens injured.


History of the Jews in Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



and a quick look around tells me everything wasnt quite that rosey;



Syrian Jews

I beleive the largest community of Syrian Jews live in New York. I think it was a condition imposed by Assad of them the being allowed to leave that they didn't go to Israel.



In the nineteenth century the commercial importance of Aleppo and Damascus underwent a marked decline. Beginning around 1850, and with increasing frequency until the First World War, many families left Syria for Egypt, and later moved from there to Manchester in England, often following the cotton trade.[40] Later still a considerable number left Manchester for Latin America, in particular Mexico and Argentina. From around 1908, many Syrian Jews migrated to New York, where the Brooklyn community is now the world's largest single Syrian Jewish community. For these communities at the present day, see Syrian Jews.
With anti-Jewish feeling reaching a climax in the late 1930s and early 1940s, many Jews considered emigrating. Between 1942 and 1947, around 4,500 Jews arrived in Palestine from Syria and Lebanon.[41] In August 1949, the Menarsha synagogue was attacked in Damascus. 12 people were killed and dozens injured.


History of the Jews in Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



and a quick look around tells me everything wasnt quite that rosey;



Syrian Jews

To avoid confusion, I reiterate my sympathy with any minority that faced persecution, such as Jews in the last few centuries (I watched the Pianist and like any human being I felt sad for their suffering, no one should suffer like that and hopefully the world is becoming a better place slowly but surely, movies were not my only source btw). I also confirm that I separate Judaism from political movements.

Every minority in the world will feel vulnerable and might face various degrees of persecution by the majority. For example, Jews in Europe previously, Muslims in non-Muslim countries currently and others. Of course the world is much more mature now and the degree of persecution declined.

However, It is in the best interest of Zionists to show the world that they were persecuted by everyone (Christians and Muslims) and that Occupying Palestine was the only way they can live peacefully. This has helped them gain support from the world in what they are doing to Palestinians now a days. It's sad that they are doing to them more than what they faced. One day the world will look back at these times and be astonished how someone got a way of doing such things in the 21st century.

Jews were certainly persecuted, I'm not denying that and I said earlier it is sad and unacceptable. But that does not mean that Zionists did not exaggerate and fabricate some stories to serve their agenda.

Before Zionists started the invasion of Palestine, Jews were living in Arab countries and practicing both their religion and day to day life freely. They only started migrating after Zionism called them to the promised land. If they were living in harsh persecution, they would not have stayed till the 20th century. 1300 years after Muslims took power in Levant from the Romans. Romans persecuted them too and they persecuted Christians. And the persecution saga continues.

All claims of discrimination are post to the occupation of Palestine. Not to justify the claimed injustice, but after the occupation, Syria and other Arab countries tried to help Palestinians reclaim their land and fought with Israel. Being at war with Israel, and because it is difficult to distinguish an undercover Zionist from a Syrian Jew, some restrictions were imposed on Jews such as working in the military and migrating to Israel to join the Israeli forces. These restrictions were not permanent and again exaggerated.

The two sources you have quoted are not neutral (Wikipedia post is not fool proof, Jewishvirtuallibrary has the above mentioned purpose in exaggerating if not fabricating in some cases ). In my quick search I could not find reliable studies, I need to do more research.

In any case, it is hard to tell for sure, Arabs will deny and Israeli will confirm and neither is credible, right? … If I had to choose, I would go with the one whose land was stolen from them.

 

[eman resu]

That's fine and dandy for the Quranic verses that are obviously directing violence not necessarily at unbelievers, but the one's that do can not be excused because of the context that you are finding, or creating in order to justify your interpretation. Christians often do the same thing to dismiss or work around the nasty bits of their holy (lol, I almost typo'd that to say hoky) text.

The fact is, many Muslims find the context and interpretation to differ from yours, and in ways that justifies their violence. Why are you convinced that they are wrong? The text is just too vague, and to use the above word for it, cryptographic, to be able to decisively say what it means or justifies.

the reason being that, just like there are verses like the ones on the website (that supposedly promote violence according to some people's interpretation) there are also verses in the quran that tell people to be understanding and tolerant of other religions and to maintain peace. all these extremist muslims use these so called "violence-promoting" verses to justify their actions, but they fail to consider the other "peace-promoting" verses. and the average person who has never read the quran and only hears about the violence in the quran will form judgments about islam based on that