Muslims have nothing to do with Jerusalem- Qur'an says.

[Shad]

:: This thread is intended to discuss the issue from a religious point of view, not from a political point of view ::
​

Straight away Qur’an instructed to leave alone the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) with all their affairs. Jerusalem belonged to them for thousands years and all on a sudden Omar decided to invade Jerusalem just to snatch it away from them. ​

It was under control of the Byzantines not the Jews.

Jewish revolt against Heraclius - Wikipedia
Siege of Jerusalem (636–637) - Wikipedia​

 

[rational experiences]

I din't really get you ? Sorry blame that on me ..

Science, temples, technology, transmutation of metals using radio wave/radiation communications, between mountain temple to ground temples.

A country based practice of the ancients, science, technology is always and has always been present in the life of civilization.....but the technical part of the choice always variable.

The UFO owns country of origin landing as UFO radiation mass...why human DNA genetics once all the same were radiated mutated converted and then healed.

When doing Temple science, it was scientific made aware that if you tried to apply ONE science method when UFO is not one itself, it blew up the Temples or attacked the pyramid. How it was notified, to never own a circuit technology.

Lucky for humans today, the nuclear power plant is scattered.

History says, Jewish DNA getting sacrificed and English migrants proved to Rome that their control/ownership in the past of Temple sciences in Egypt were evil.

Rome agreed, dismantled the Temple where the circuits turned "Jeru" salem.

Technology used by a multi national group of civilizations.

Muslims by living conditions eventually did not agree, tried to re implement the technology by status that learning of new cosmological advice in their regained science statements knew better.

So they tried to rebuild the science Temple back in Jerusalem....where the fighting began, based on the technology and want of it.

Life was re sacrificed, humans therefore learnt and wrote an agreement about it. Own your own Holy Land, DNA was proof of it...…..and it was stated in documents as a legal agreement.

 

[RabbiO]

I din't really get you ? Sorry blame that on me ..

By now you probably realize it’s not you.

 

[Ruh]

Salam. I don't think this verse refers to those of us who pay attention to the Ahadith as well as the Qur'an. After all, we do not turn aside from the Qur'an. Ws.

If Hadith followers pay attention to the Qur'an, then they would decide their affairs with Qur'an only . A classical example in hand is you who do not agree with Qur'an pertaining the topic of Jerusalem because Hadith said otherwise . So who win ? Hadith and not Qur'an . Theoretically , Sunni-Shia adore Qur'an while they follow Ahadith . To them ALLAH's book is useless without the help of the books written by Bukhari and Co. So to them who win again ? Bukhari and Co. and not ALLAH . Sad but that is the fact my brother .

 

[Ruh]

It was under control of the Byzantines not the Jews.

Jewish revolt against Heraclius - Wikipedia
Siege of Jerusalem (636–637) - Wikipedia​

As my OP cites , I am taking back the history of Jerusalem thousands years to the ancient periods .

 

[Ruh]

Science, temples, technology, transmutation of metals using radio wave/radiation communications, between mountain temple to ground temples.

A country based practice of the ancients, science, technology is always and has always been present in the life of civilization.....but the technical part of the choice always variable.

The UFO owns country of origin landing as UFO radiation mass...why human DNA genetics once all the same were radiated mutated converted and then healed.

When doing Temple science, it was scientific made aware that if you tried to apply ONE science method when UFO is not one itself, it blew up the Temples or attacked the pyramid. How it was notified, to never own a circuit technology.

Lucky for humans today, the nuclear power plant is scattered.

History says, Jewish DNA getting sacrificed and English migrants proved to Rome that their control/ownership in the past of Temple sciences in Egypt were evil.

Rome agreed, dismantled the Temple where the circuits turned "Jeru" salem.

Technology used by a multi national group of civilizations.

Muslims by living conditions eventually did not agree, tried to re implement the technology by status that learning of new cosmological advice in their regained science statements knew better.

So they tried to rebuild the science Temple back in Jerusalem....where the fighting began, based on the technology and want of it.

Life was re sacrificed, humans therefore learnt and wrote an agreement about it. Own your own Holy Land, DNA was proof of it...…..and it was stated in documents as a legal agreement.

Who are you ? Can I see you in person ? I am curious about you .

 

[Ruh]

By now you probably realize it’s not you.

I do get your point . But may be there is something about her that we need to know more .

 

[Shad]

As my OP cites , I am taking back the history of Jerusalem thousands years to the ancient periods .

You used a specific point of Umar/Omar's invasion. You got a basic fact wrong.

 

[Ruh]

You used a specific point of Umar/Omar's invasion. You got a basic fact wrong.

Yes , both are correct . Jerusalem belongs to the Jews for thousand years .In 7th Century Omar took control of it from Byzantine who were also invaders . Jerusalem historically belong to the Jews not to the Persians , Roman-Byzantines nor Arabs .

 

[Shad]

Yes , both are correct . Jerusalem belongs to the Jews for thousand years .In 7th Century Omar took control of it from Byzantine who were also invaders . Jerusalem historically belong to the Jews not to the Persians , Roman-Byzantines nor Arabs .

And the Canaanites before that. You are cutting off ownership at the point you want. If conquest is a valid claim to an area then proceeding claims are valid as well

 

[Ruh]

And the Canaanites before that. You are cutting off ownership at the point you want. If conquest is a valid claim to an area then proceeding claims are valid as well

My OP starts with a red apologist , where I intended to discuss my thread from a religious point of view . Within this view , Jews are the legit owner of Jerusalem .

 

[Shad]

My OP starts with a red apologist , where I intended to discuss my thread from a religious point of view . Within this view , Jews are the legit owner of Jerusalem .

Yet you keep bring up politics.

 

[Ruh]

By saying that I involved the view of Bible and Qur'an typically .

Yet you keep bring up politics.

Hahaha , you win , happy !

 

[Shad]

By saying that I involved the view of Bible and Qur'an typically .

Hahaha , you win , happy !

Get your basic facts correct and you wont have a problem.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If Hadith followers pay attention to the Qur'an, then they would decide their affairs with Qur'an only . A classical example in hand is you who do not agree with Qur'an pertaining the topic of Jerusalem because Hadith said otherwise . So who win ? Hadith and not Qur'an . Theoretically , Sunni-Shia adore Qur'an while they follow Ahadith . To them ALLAH's book is useless without the help of the books written by Bukhari and Co. So to them who win again ? Bukhari and Co. and not ALLAH . Sad but that is the fact my brother .

Salam. It is not that the Qur'an is useless without the Ahadith, it is that the Ahadith - in large part, the words and actions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), after all - that help to further explicate some of its verses. We need the two together, Allah's Word and the example of the Prophet (pbuh) to understand how to put the Qur'an's teachings into action. Ws.

 

[Ruh]

Salam. It is not that the Qur'an is useless without the Ahadith, it is that the Ahadith - in large part, the words and actions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), after all - that help to further explicate some of its verses. We need the two together, Allah's Word and the example of the Prophet (pbuh) to understand how to put the Qur'an's teachings into action. Ws.

You won't find a single hadith left by the Prophet and/or his companions . 1450 years passed by already, not a single page of Hadith is found from them so far . Why? Because they did not have any idea what Hadith was . All are latter inventions into Islam to astray Muslim from Qur'an .

On the contrary thousands of manuscripts of Qur'an are scattered all around the world , straight from the age of the Prophet and his companions ? Ask again , why ? Because they knew Qur'an was the only source of Islam and hence preserved and propagated them for the next generations to come .

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You won't find a single hadith left by the Prophet and/or his companions . 1450 years passed by already, not a single page of Hadith is found from them so far . Why? Because they did not have any idea what Hadith was . All are latter inventions into Islam to astray Muslim from Qur'an .

On the contrary thousands of manuscripts of Qur'an are scattered all around the world , straight from the age of the Prophet and his companions ? Ask again , why ? Because they knew Qur'an was the only source of Islam and hence preserved and propagated them for the next generations to come .

Salam. The oral tradition has always been a big thing, for both the Ahadith and the Qur'an, you seem to be overlooking that. Ws

 

[Ruh]

Salam. The oral tradition has always been a big thing, for both the Ahadith and the Qur'an, you seem to be overlooking that. Ws

W.Salam Akhi. A divine and solid religion like Islam will never rely on oral traditions only . Especially when Prophet and his first recipient Companions all were dead , somebody said 'Qala RasuluLLAH' and there was nobody alive to verify the truth . Chinese whisper indeed !

A rational question , do you know where is the original manuscript of Sahih Bukhari preserved written by Imam Isma'l Bukhari ? Or of Muslim Nishapuri ?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

W.Salam Akhi. A divine and solid religion like Islam will never rely on oral traditions only . Especially when Prophet and his first recipient Companions all were dead , somebody said 'Qala RasuluLLAH' and there was nobody alive to verify the truth . Chinese whisper indeed !

A rational question , do you know where is the original manuscript of Sahih Bukhari preserved written by Imam Isma'l Bukhari ? Or of Muslim Nishapuri ?

Salam. But we don't rely on oral traditions alone. And as I mentioned in an earlier e-mail, there is a well-developed 'science of hadith' involving close examination of the trustworthiness of the transmitters in the chain of transmission of the Ahadith. Many, many Ahadith have been rejected on the grounds that there isn't a reliable chain of transmission. So it hardly bears resemblance to the caricature you paint it out to be.

I don't know where the original manuscripts of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are, no.

Ws.

 

[Ruh]

Salam. But we don't rely on oral traditions alone. And as I mentioned in an earlier e-mail, there is a well-developed 'science of hadith' involving close examination of the trustworthiness of the transmitters in the chain of transmission of the Ahadith. Many, many Ahadith have been rejected on the grounds that there isn't a reliable chain of transmission. So it hardly bears resemblance to the caricature you paint it out to be.

'Ulm-ul-Hadith' developed by fallible human . ALLAH , swt , only promised to preserve and guard the Qur'an and nothing else . No wonder why you see hundreds and thousands of fake Hadith in the name of the Prophet . Even Bukhari and Muslims are also full of fake Hadith and lies . Sunni canonized them as 100% Sahih as if it is Qur'an , while you have this ( for an example per se ..):


Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 787:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet was neither conspicuously tall, nor short; neither, very white, nor tawny.His hair was neither much curled, nor very straight. Allah sent him (as an Messenger) at the age of forty (and after that) he stayed for ten years in Makkah, and for ten more years in Medina. Allah took him unto Him at the age of sixty, and he scarcely had ten white hairs on his head and in his beard.

==>> 60 years.


Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Allah's Messenger started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Makkah for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).

==>> 63 years .


Muslim, Book 030, Number 5805:

'Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported:
I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said: I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said: I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said: Do you know counting? He said: Yes. He then said: Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Makkah for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.

==>> 65 years .

I don't know where the original manuscripts of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are, no.

Ws.

Nobody knows my brother , because they don't exist . But we rely for our religion upon these two books mostly if it is not entirely !! So vulnerable our religion is !!