Muslims:Proof of hijab

[beenie]

Ok, now lets just relax and take it easy dear sister . Inspite of putting another point of view to you, I did propose for you to not let it go to your head too sudden, meaning, I did say that you can take your own sweet time for taking a break from 'thinking so obsessively about it'.

That said, i have all the regard for you for putting up the question. It takes guts to.

Contrary to the topic, just want to share something,

thank you.

I don't know how true it is, but real submission to Allah's commandments comes from actually falling in Love with Him, rather than questioning, or keeping a 'safe distance' from the Love of Allah , so that 'we don't have to change ourselves too much' from our own identity. This is something one learns to stop doing when we find out that we love ourselves more than we love anything else, and that's a selfish feeling.

For anyone out there who is in Love with Allah, only he can truly relate to what it feels like.

And after one has felt that feeling, it overpowers all your inhibitions about logically challenging the landmarks of religion. And submission all the way is the only true form of obedience that is not only highly desirable but also very comforting

who says i don't love Allah or that i love myself more than anything else because i'm questioning the necessity of the headscarf? i'm just clarifying that it's indeed what Allah said.

All in all, there must be a reason Allah said that 'The Love for the Creator and the love for the Prophets is the foremost priority of Muslims, above the love of their own parents, children and loved ones. '

We Muslims have forgotten that mandatory rule for achieving the key to total submission. Why so? because we have moved so far away from the Quran and the true stories of the Prophets and their ardent followers, the Sahaba's (the companions), the Saadiqeen (The Truthfulls) and the shohadaa'(the martyrs). One must keep a continuous contact with the religiously aware people, and the Ullema,(the Scholars) who narrate the true stories of pure inspiration from Islam. It is only our ignorance which has kept us away from the great insurmountable feeling of Eeman.(Faith)

total submission doesn't mean we can't explore the reasons behind things. for if we weren't to question anything, Allah would have made us like trees.

May Allah Subhanao Ta'lla give us all the the Love for Him and His people and May HE give us true Hidayat (guidance), so that we can bag the best places in Jannah (Heaven, yeah visualize heaven all the time, all obstacles will become easy hehe) Aameennn

Ameen.

A very Happy Eid Mubarak to all the Muslims out there

Eid Mubarak to you as well.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I don't (Nauzubillah) have a superior Opinion On Islam, Muslims CANT have a Critical opinion on Islam, Its perfect And 'The True system of beliefs'. It has been designed by Allah, any human attempting to offer their critical analysis of "should have's and should not have been's" can not be called a believer.

well, we humans are not in any position to decide who is a believer and who isn't. only Allah knows what's in our hearts. simply analyzing an aspect of religion doesn't take you out of the faith.

Whatever opinions that I Shared may be called as minute strands of supportive thought (out of reflection of agreeing with Islam in totality),they are not in any way 'Of analytical or of scrutiny' in nature.

i'm not trying to start an argument, but where does it say a homosexual should be killed/punished just for BEING a homosexual? we all agree that the ACT is a sin in Islam, but not for simply "being."

I'm not going to argue at length with somebody who thinks homosexuality is a virtue. You'll find the answer to that on the day of Judgment. Speaks Highly of your position of '' Superlative Advisory'' to the formulators of the Religion, which is what by the way??

Never Mind.

i read Badran's post three times, and nowhere in his post did i see that he called homosexuality a virtue. it's best to quote him so we can all see it. (hint: it doesn't say anything of the sort).

we as a Muslim community need to learn to respect each other for who we are; we are not lemmings, and we all have different levels of iman in many ways. some are struggling with one area while others are struggling elsewhere. instead of focusing on that, let's focus on improving our image and our position in the world and community we live in. headscarf or no, we are ALL Muslims and should be treated as such.

 

[Badran]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I don't (Nauzubillah) have a superior Opinion On Islam

Neither do i of course.

Muslims CANT have a Critical opinion on Islam,

Sure, on what Islam actually says. On what the religion actually teaches, as we believe in it to be perfect, so criticizing parts of it doesn't make any sense.

In case you didn't get what i'm saying, the question is not that i don't like or disagree with certain aspects of the religion. The question is what does the religion actually say. There is the Quran and there is Hadiths. Both require some work to determine what they teach. The Quran in interpretation, and Hadiths also in interpretation and deciding which ones are actually true Hadiths that were said by the prophet (pbuh).

Its perfect And 'The True system of beliefs'. It has been designed by Allah, any human attempting to offer their critical analysis of "should have's and should not have been's" can not be called a believer.

Sure, like i said the religion is so according to our beliefs, thats not an issue here. The issue here is what does the religion actually say in a particular topic.

Whatever opinions that I Shared may be called as minute strands of supportive thought (out of reflection of agreeing with Islam in totality),they are not in any way 'Of analytical or of scrutiny' in nature.

Yeah i understand. I agree with everything Islam says too.

I'm not going to argue at length with somebody who thinks homosexuality is a virtue. You'll find the answer to that on the day of Judgment. Speaks Highly of your position of '' Superlative Advisory'' to the formulators of the Religion, which is what by the way??

Never Mind.

That didn't take long.

I said it shouldn't be punishable. You concluded that i think of it as a virtue. Why is that?

Do you consider anything that is not punishable to be a virtue?

I suppose you thought i meant it shouldn't be punishable in the afterlife. As for knowing the answer at the day of judgment, sure we'll all do.

 

[Starsoul]

Neither do i of course.

I said it shouldn't be punishable. You concluded that i think of it as a virtue. Why is that?

Do you consider anything that is not punishable to be a virtue?
.

All actions which are not punishable and are included in our daily lives such as even waking up at a proper time and going to bed at time ( and be punctual for Salah') and the rest of the personal activities that we do everyday, when are in line with the recommendations of Islam, fall very much within the virtuous acts.

All acts which are allowed/ recommended in Islam are virtues, and those which are not allowed/prohibited are punishable. I really can't think of an act that humans do , being outside the circle of either a Virtue or Vice.

Allah is too kind to ignore our daily chores which we spend most of our time doing, to exclude out of virtue, If they are practiced amicably. Even a sneeze takes sins off from you and it is written as a virtue if one says Alhamdulilah after it.

Even a simple greeting like 'Asalam o alaikum' adds 30 virtues to our virtue bank, It is just so wonderful to be able to bag virtues all day long and be rich at the end of the day

Islam's virtue concept is not limited to charity, alms and feeding the poor, It is for those too who ARE the poor and cannot feed anyone or give alms, if they just abide by whatever little responsibility that they have been given according to the Lines of Islam.

 

[Cypress]

Even a sneeze takes sins off from you and it is written as a virtue if one says Alhamdulilah after it.

A sneeze takes of sins?
Do you mean the sneeze itself, or the saying Alhamdulilah when someone sneezes?

Even a simple greeting like 'Asalam o alaikum' adds 30 virtues to our virtue bank,

What are virtues and how do you know that saying Asalam o alaikum adds 30 of them?

 

[Badran]

All actions which are not punishable and are included in our daily lives such as even waking up at a proper time and going to bed at time ( and be punctual for Salah') and the rest of the personal activities that we do everyday, when are in line with the recommendations of Islam, fall very much within the virtuous acts.

All acts which are allowed/ recommended in Islam are virtues, and those which are not allowed/prohibited are punishable. I really can't think of an act that humans do , being outside the circle of either a Virtue or Vice.

Allah is too kind to ignore our daily chores which we spend most of our time doing, to exclude out of virtue, If they are practiced amicably. Even a sneeze takes sins off from you and it is written as a virtue if one says Alhamdulilah after it.

Even a simple greeting like 'Asalam o alaikum' adds 30 virtues to our virtue bank, It is just so wonderful to be able to bag virtues all day long and be rich at the end of the day

Islam's virtue concept is not limited to charity, alms and feeding the poor, It is for those too who ARE the poor and cannot feed anyone or give alms, if they just abide by whatever little responsibility that they have been given according to the Lines of Islam.

If you're talking about punishment in the after life, then yes i agree. Of course our actions no matter how small they are, would fall under a category, and i agree that Allah doesn't ignore the small stuff. While however there are somethings that i wouldn't consider to be falling under neither vice or virtue, like for example sitting on the couch while watching the ceiling or snapping your fingers or anything that isn't neither wrong or right (if its not in the time of something else), i still understand what you're saying. That even very small actions count.

I wasn't talking about punishment in the afterlife though, i was talking about punishments in life. Thats what i was referring to as not being applicable.

 

[Starsoul]

If you're talking about punishment in the after life, then yes i agree. Of course our actions no matter how small they are, would fall under a category, and i agree that Allah doesn't ignore the small stuff. While however there are somethings that i wouldn't consider to be falling under neither vice or virtue, like for example sitting on the couch while watching the ceiling or snapping your fingers or anything that isn't neither wrong or right (if its not in the time of something else), i still understand what you're saying. That even very small actions count.

I wasn't talking about punishment in the afterlife though, i was talking about punishments in life. Thats what i was referring to as not being applicable.

Why would anyone even want such an action to be 'Discussed' as a virtue? I'm glad you spared us the gory details, but its pretty much common sense.
But If i was sitting on the couch and remembered Allah's name or did zikr then that holds as a virtue for not sitting idle, wasting time.

How can you say that the punishments described in the Quran are not applicable to a criminal in this life? Are you implying that there should be no system of justice and accountability in this world and all criminals should be let loose?

 

[Starsoul]

A sneeze takes of sins?
Do you mean the sneeze itself, or the saying Alhamdulilah when someone sneezes?


What are virtues and how do you know that saying Asalam o alaikum adds 30 of them?

Both. Incase of the sneeze, and after saying Alhamdulilah, it probably increases your score points of virtues by Thanking Allah for the sneeze to finish, ask a person who's had to sneeze constantly for a few minutes, it just exhausts a person.

I don't know which faith you belong to, but in our faith a simple greeting carrying the basic message of peace and making it a common practice is encouraged, whether you know the person or not(and is obviously considered as a warm gesture in civilized societies). It has been rewarded as equal to 30 virtues,(as been described in the ahadees ) probably so that the person remains encouraged to keep himself socially in contact, and there is great stress in religion for being the first one to greet another person ,warmly.

 

[Cypress]

Both. Incase of the sneeze, and after saying Alhamdulilah, it probably increases your score points of virtues by Thanking Allah for the sneeze to finish, ask a person who's had to sneeze constantly for a few minutes, it just exhausts a person.

I don't know which faith you belong to, but in our faith a simple greeting carrying the basic message of peace and making it a common practice is encouraged, whether you know the person or not(and is obviously considered as a warm gesture in civilized societies). It has been rewarded as equal to 30 virtues,(as been described in the ahadees ) probably so that the person remains encouraged to keep himself socially in contact, and there is great stress in religion for being the first one to greet another person ,warmly.

Thank you for the explanation.
So basically every Muslim has an account book.
When he or she does something, a certain amount of virtues are added or substracted.
At the end of live, he or she is presented the account and goes eigther to paradise or hell.
Is my understanding correct?

 

[Aquitaine]

As i understand, she's talking about the headscarf only, not hijab.

The Hijab is just the headscarf though, right? Isn't the full-body equivalent known as the Niqab/Burka?

I ask for this clarification because I often find people have so many different meanings of the names, so mis-interpretation and confusion can become common in discussions like these.

 

[Badran]

Why would anyone even want such an action to be 'Discussed' as a virtue? I'm glad you spared us the gory details, but its pretty much common sense.

Which action are you refferring to?

But If i was sitting on the couch and remembered Allah's name or did zikr then that holds as a virtue for not sitting idle, wasting time.

If one does zikr for example, that is a virtue yes. This is not what i'm saying, i know this counts. What i was saying is that i think there are some things that aren't neither virtue or vice.

How can you say that the punishments described in the Quran are not applicable to a criminal in this life?

Which punishments are you referring to, and which supposed criminals are those?

Also, note the difference between punishments in the afterlife and punishments in life, please clarify which are you talking about. Punishments described in the Quran to be applied in life, or ones that will take place in the afterlife.

Are you implying that there should be no system of justice and accountability in this world and all criminals should be let loose?

No.

 

[Badran]

The Hijab is just the headscarf though, right? Isn't the full-body equivalent known as the Niqab/Burka?


I ask for this clarification because I often find people have so many different meanings of the names, so mis-interpretation and confusion can become common in discussions like these.

Hijab in my language and as i know it is the full modest dress described. Some people refer to the headscarf only as hijab though as you know.

The headscarf is just part of hijab, as hijab is the whole modest dress. Which doesn't include covering the face as i learned it and see it to be. Hijab would be a woman wearing modest clothes and a headscarf, her hands and face would not be covered. It doesn't have to be a certain type of dress neither.

The niqab is the extra covering which includes the hands and face except the eyes (in some cases women cover their eyes too though). Which is mostly worn in black.

 

[Sufi]

[youtube]QHVaLP2CzvU[/youtube]
YouTube - Hijab - Hamza Yusuf

 

[Cypress]

What are such masks called?

 

[Starsoul]

Thank you for the explanation.
So basically every Muslim has an account book.
When he or she does something, a certain amount of virtues are added or substracted.
At the end of live, he or she is presented the account and goes either to paradise or hell.
Is my understanding correct?

Yes thats true. And the account book is being prepared by two Angels appointed on every single human being, not Just Muslims. They write down every thing we say or do. And If some good natured person who has a reasonably good life with little sins and more focus towards benevolence and human welfare, and is not familiar with the teachings of the Quran if they haven't reached him, will also go to paradise, as has been said in the Quran.
And Allah knows best.

 

[Starsoul]

What are such masks called?

Such masks are called, 'err.. masks of ancient egyptian origin'.
These are not quite indicative of Islamic thought as a veil means hiding for a women her beauty and ornaments, and ornaments are quite prominent in these pictures.

 

[beenie]

[youtube]QHVaLP2CzvU[/youtube]
YouTube - Hijab - Hamza Yusuf

this man speaks truthfully and realistically. we need more Hamza Yusuf's in our Muslim world.

 

[Bismillah]

Starsoul: Do you think that Muslim countries should be most focused on enforcing morality?

 

[Cypress]

Ok, they women in this video wear Hijab.
Hijab does not cover the face.
Nijab does (I always tend to confuse the two).

 

[ConfusedKuri]

According to Sayyed Ammar Nakshawani the veil itself existed before Islam, Muslimahs were just ordered to cover their bosoms with it(as it was a custom to not cover breasts in pre-Islamic times), therefore the veil itself is not necessarily bound by Islam but is a custom which was carried on within Islamic culture.

So that takes us back to the question how Islamic it really is and if it's really farz for us...

 

[beenie]

According to Sayyed Ammar Nakshawani the veil itself existed before Islam, Muslimahs were just ordered to cover their bosoms with it(as it was a custom to not cover breasts in pre-Islamic times), therefore the veil itself is not necessarily bound by Islam but is a custom which was carried on within Islamic culture.

So that takes us back to the question how Islamic it really is and if it's really farz for us...

OK here's my input:

If the veil existed before Islam, then Allah would have clarified that in Qur'an for those who were NOT there before Islam. Norwegian women would not understand pre-Islamic culture and wouldn't understand that the veil should come from the head to the bosom. Islam is to be for all times, all cultures. If Allah wanted hijab to be required, wouldn't He, of all people, be unmistakenly clear about it?

"it is ordered for all Muslim women, for all times, in all cultures, to cover each and every hair on her head with an opaque cloth so that not a single strand is seen by non-mahrem men."

Why leave it up to interpretation by anyone?

Food for thought...