Fluffy said:
I am not sure I completely understand you. Are you saying that you do not vote because you do not care at all about politics or because you see no difference between the candidates?
Both of those. The first is mostly a consequence of the second.
drekmed said:
Well, in 2000, if 538 people in Florida (the entire state) that didn't vote had voted for Al Gore, we would have had a different president. So really while 1 vote may not seem important, it could be.
But I myself couldn't influence 538 people even if I tried. And I would only try if it was something the outcome of which I felt was majorly important- in which case the whole thing would most probably turn out ok anyway, since everybody else would vote and make sure nothing drastically terrible happens.
drekmed said:
So I feel that if you don't vote you shouldn't complain, because by not voting you choose not to voice your opinion on who should be making the laws.
How am I in any way 'voicing my opinion' by voting?? It's a secret ballot! If I wished to voice my opinion truthfully I would go to Hyde Park Corner or a similar public place and actually tell as many people as possible about it.
drekmed said:
Also, there are many laws in the US that must be voted on by the general public, these are usually on the ballot during a big election, by not going to the polls to vote, you miss the chance of voice your opinion on the law itself, if they have the same thing where you are.
Yes but pretty much the same thing applies- I'm not going to change the outcome unless I campaign publicly to change enough people's minds, and even then I doubt anybody would listen to me, and if it was important enough for me to want to campaign about it in the first place then the vote would probably go the way I wanted it anyway- I don't see any reason why I would disagree with the majority of the public strongly enough for this scenario to exist.
drekmed said:
Of course, right now, you're free to say and complain about whatever you like, but if you don't exercise your right to vote who's to say how long that might last.
Are you suggesting that if I myself do not vote, there is a chance that a party might come into power who bans basic freedoms as generally guaranteed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? This is ridiculous.
drekmed said:
Probably the same as everybody else, if I hold their views on it. Thus making my position once more impotent.
gnomon said:
I firmly believe that people who currently hold the right and power to vote who do not partake in the voting process in their local community give away their right to complain, whine, moan or otherwise ***** about the results. Holding to principles means nothing if you dont take the oppurtunity to practice them.
This is only correct if one's 'principle' is to vote. If one's principle is something political or depending on politics, then voting is not actually practising it.
gnomon said:
I've listened to people complain about the results of local referendums to increase the sales tax to statewide votes on allowing gay men and women the right to marry. In most cases the people who complain never even bothered to vote. In my eyes, they have no reason to complain. If they couldn't even bother themselves to exercise the oppurtunity given to them why should anyone else on their behalf. There are some legitimate reasons for not voting, but those reasons seldom apply.
So would I also not be justified in complaining about a pop star's lifestyle, since I could excersie my opportunity to go and stand outside his house or send him a letter telling him to stop taking drugs? Considering that my actions here would cause effectively nothing, it is analogous to the politics situation.
gnomon said:
Also, in the States we still have a living memory of those who fought and risked their lives to just be able to hold this simple right to vote. To listen to many people, increasingly of a younger age, be dismissive of this is somewhat disheartening.
Imagine there was a big war and my compatriots fought for the right to own and maintain pot plants. These pot plants contribute, in however small a fashion, to keeping oxygen and carbon dioxide levels balanced in the world.
However, I choose not to own a pot plant. I can't be bothered filling out the registration forms for a pot plant permit and watering it often, making sure it gets sunlight etc. [even though admittedly this does not have to be done often]. Why do people criticise me for not owning one? Just because somebody fought for my right to own one does not mean I should purposely get one, just to somehow retroactively justify the war.
gnomon said:
Even though I do participate, I do get that feeling I'm being hit with a pie every time. Though now I realize its not so much the process itself but the increasing laziness of my fellow Americans who are too self-absorbed to risk anything and try to play voting off as a joke not realizing their very problem.
I think democracy in this country works even though I myself choose not to vote- I don't believe I make a difference in this matter. I further believe that if everyone in the country suddenly decided to vote voluntarily, then no election outcomes would be any different whatsoever. I believe this because I think the proportion of the country that does vote is representative of the country as a whole.
Djamila said:
Citizens have a responsibility not just to vote, but to vote responsibly.
This implies that there is a 'right way' to vote, thus making democracy futile!
Djamila said:
SDA was closest for me in terms of refugee returns. I'm going to vote for SDA because, for me, a family that's still living on the airport runway in Tuzla 10 years after another family took their home, and to this day celebrates the 'heroism' of the people who got it for them, is disgusting. That, to me, is a bigger issue than economic development. They've suffered enough.
I get sick of Tony Blair allowing Creationism to be taught in schools for the sole reason that Peter Vardy has lots of money. I think this is a disguting episode of England today. However, I really really believe that me voting against Tony Blair will have zero point zero percent effect on this.
Booko said:
True, and then you have to see which candidate has views that match those issues best. Except none of them discuss my issues. They're too busy with piddling things that whip up their extremes on either side of the political spectrum.
I would say that they are too busy with the issues that are likely to get them elected, since power corrupts and they lose sight of any issues they may once have deemed 'important.'
Booko said:
And I find no one...NO ONE...addressing ANY of those in any meaningful way. NO ONE, not ANYWHERE in this country. Nada. Nil. Not on the ballot.
Because they are not yet issues that get people elected!
Booko said:
Gee, can ya tell I'm just a tad disillusioned with our politics?
You should be!
Djamila said:
I think it's normal to feel that way, Booko. You just can't let it get you down or cause you to give up.
Don't listen to her, Booko!
kai said:
its no good complaining if you distance yourself from the way your country is run , at least your one vote is your protest agianst or your agreement with government and dont forget local issues with council elections etc
If I wanted to protest I would protest, and I would do it vocally in a way that shows I am attempting to actually make a credible difference. If I agree then there is no reason to do anything, unless I want to protest
for them, in which case I would.
gnomon said:
Maybe I'm under the illusion of possessing some sort of control. They really should put none of the above as a voting option. If no one is qualified then no one gets the position.
We should be able to vote against democracy. I'm joking, btw.
Booko said:
The two parties do take notice when significant numbers of votes go to third party candidates. I've been known to vote third party just to "send a message" to the guys who are actually going to get elected. I find that far more useful than not voting at all.
Seriously Booko, if you want to "send a message" then it's much more logical to do it in a way that means they know they have received one.
gnomon said:
As to a final note on the OP: Dont complain unless you do something. Reading international news and sipping latte's at the local cafe is not political participation. Either vote or engage in the community by some means but don't just complain about it. The reason we get the government we deserve is through ignorance and apathy.
But anything that I
can do is totally ineffectual! Only one-to-many or many-to-many media can actually affect voting outcomes. I dont care which government I get because: a) they will all be fundamentally the same; and b)
I can't change it anyway. And I hate coffee, almost as much as I hate international news.
And I'm not American, so I don't know what 'Primaries' are either. I thank you all for your replies.