Must Watch Video: Jesus Never Existed

[Desert Snake]

So the coming of the Kingdom of God and the Son of Man don't represent the end times? ─

Mark 9
1 And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."

Mark 13
28 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place.

Matthew 16 -
28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Matthew 24 -
32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Luke 9
27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."

Why are you interpreting the 'kingdom of God', as the reign of Jesus?
The disciples were witness to the kingdom of God, Jesus allowed them that. The 'generation', means the disciples, not everyone. /obviously, as that would make no sense.
The kingdom of Jesus is the reign, the kingdom of God is the witness to the kingdom of God.

If you can explain how many false prophets will arise, so forth, in a short span, then do so. Clearly these do not mean the same thing.

 

[blü 2]

Why are you interpreting the 'kingdom of God', as the reign of Jesus?

Where does it say that it means something else? Grateful if you could point that out.

The disciples were witness to the kingdom of God, Jesus allowed them that.

Again, grateful if you'll point out where it says that.

The 'generation', means the disciples, not everyone. /obviously, as that would make no sense.

I can't accept that. The plain words of the text simply give no support to that argument.

The kingdom of Jesus is the reign, the kingdom of God is the witness to the kingdom of God.

Sorry, I can't work out what you mean by that. The Kingdom is Yahweh's kingdom on earth, and Jesus will be Lord (Viceroy) of it, as far as I can gather.

If you can explain how many false prophets will arise, so forth, in a short span, then do so. Clearly these do not mean the same thing.

I can't think of any period in history when you couldn't fill the Pyongyang Stadium ten times over with false prophets.

 

[Desert Snake]

Where does it say that it means something else? Grateful if you could point that out.
Again, grateful if you'll point out where it says that.

It isn't that it means something else, it is merely worded a bit confusingly, imo. The 'come to pass', means start, or in the process of, /Jesus's reign on earth. It doesn't mean the finality after the end times armegeddon, in this context.
That is why you have both future inference to end times, and this present inference to end times.

I can't accept that. The plain words of the text simply give no support to that argument.

The text is referring to the elect, not everyone. Non Jesus adherents, ie anti-christ adherents, get annihilated. The elect, Jesus adherents, are saved, not those who don't accept Jesus. They face Hell, Gehenna.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus is talking contextually to the *disciples, the followers of Jesus, not everyone.

 

[Augustus]

I wasn't aware of that (though the promotion of Jesus is a predictable yearning of his followers). Do you have a link to the details?

Can start with the writings of Paul.

Outside the Christian tradition, Pliny the Younger in c110 noted Christians worshipping Jesus as a God suggesting the practice was widespread by this point.

Interesting hypothesis. Do any of the early documents hint at that?

Just my own personal speculation really, it's not really something that can be proved. We do have more modern parallels though:

A striking falsification can be found in a classic of social psychology, When Prophecy Fails (1956), a study of a UFO cult in the early 1950s. Written by a team led by Leon Festinger, the psychologist who developed the idea of cognitive dissonance, the book recounts how a Michigan woman claimed to have received messages in automatic writing from alien intelligences on another planet announcing the end of the world, which would be inundated by a great flood in the hours before dawn on 21 December 1954. The woman and her disciples had left their homes, jobs and partners and given away their possessions, in order to be ready for the arrival of a flying saucer that would rescue them from the doomed planet. For Festinger and his colleagues, this was an opportunity to test the theory of cognitive dissonance. According to the theory, human beings do not deal with conflicting beliefs and perceptions by testing them against facts. They reduce the conflict by reinterpreting facts that challenge the beliefs to which they are most attached. As T. S. Eliot wrote in Burnt Norton, human kind cannot bear very much reality. In order to test the theory, the psychologists infiltrated themselves into the cult and observed the reaction when the apocalypse failed to occur. Just as the theory predicted, the cultists refused to accept that their system of beliefs was mistaken. Instead, they interpreted the failure of doomsday to arrive as evidence that by waiting and praying throughout the night they had succeeded in preventing it. The confounding of all their expectations only led them to cling more tightly to their faith, and they went on to proselytize for their beliefs all the more fervently.

John Gray - The Silence of Animals: On Progress and Other Modern Myths

 

[Desert Snake]

I can't think of any period in history when you couldn't fill the Pyongyang Stadium ten times over with false prophets.

These false prophets are claiming to be Jesus. Jesus is talking directly to the disciples, how could they be fooled into believing that another false prophet is Jesus?

 

[Desert Snake]

Matthew 24:5

These aren't just false prophets, they claim to be Christ.

 

[Augustus]

The end times are spoken of in future tense by Jesus, continually in scripture.

Yes, the near future.

 

[blü 2]

Can start with the writings of Paul.

Outside the Christian tradition, Pliny the Younger in c110 noted Christians worshipping Jesus as a God suggesting the practice was widespread by this point.

That seems credible, though he'd have to know the theology to understand the nature of the worship; and I suspect there more worship than theology in 110.

A striking falsification can be found in a classic of social psychology, When Prophecy Fails (1956), a study of a UFO cult in the early 1950s. Written by a team led by Leon Festinger, the psychologist who developed the idea of cognitive dissonance, the book recounts how a Michigan woman claimed to have received messages in automatic writing from alien intelligences on another planet announcing the end of the world, which would be inundated by a great flood in the hours before dawn on 21 December 1954. The woman and her disciples had left their homes, jobs and partners and given away their possessions, in order to be ready for the arrival of a flying saucer that would rescue them from the doomed planet. For Festinger and his colleagues, this was an opportunity to test the theory of cognitive dissonance. According to the theory, human beings do not deal with conflicting beliefs and perceptions by testing them against facts. They reduce the conflict by reinterpreting facts that challenge the beliefs to which they are most attached. As T. S. Eliot wrote in Burnt Norton, human kind cannot bear very much reality. In order to test the theory, the psychologists infiltrated themselves into the cult and observed the reaction when the apocalypse failed to occur. Just as the theory predicted, the cultists refused to accept that their system of beliefs was mistaken. Instead, they interpreted the failure of doomsday to arrive as evidence that by waiting and praying throughout the night they had succeeded in preventing it. The confounding of all their expectations only led them to cling more tightly to their faith, and they went on to proselytize for their beliefs all the more fervently.

I should wonder what the evolutionary value of such cussedness is, but instead it just sounds creepy.

Thanks.