• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Mutual Deterrence vs. Unilateral Possession of Nuclear Arms

Which is preferable, in your view?

  • Unilateral ownership of nuclear arms by a country (and its closest allies).

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Controlled multilateral ownership of nuclear arms (e.g., by only two or three global powers).

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • Less controlled multilateral ownership of nuclear arms (i.e., by several countries, like now).

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Unrestricted multilateral ownership of nuclear arms (i.e., by any country that wishes to have them).

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Other (please clarify in the thread).

    Votes: 5 62.5%

  • Total voters
    8

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As I've just replied in the other thread, this is a bit of a "What if the sky were made of concrete?" question. Once a technology has been shown to be possible, it will get copied. Nobody can stop that. There could never be a scenario in which only one nation, or one "side", had such weapons. The science was always going to be out there for anyone to read, even if the specific technical designs of bombs was kept secret.

I think that was the issue early on, when the Manhattan Project was a huge military secret, along with the actual know-how on how to build an atomic bomb. By the time I was in high school (late 70s/early 80s), the actual mechanics of building a bomb was pretty well-known. But they're still somehow able to prevent countries like Iran from getting the weapons-grade plutonium needed to build bombs.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm interested to know what people think about unilateral possession of nuclear arms versus the concept of mutual deterrence. In your opinion, would it have been better that only one country (and its closest allies) had nukes after the development of the bomb, or was it better that other global powers managed to develop nuclear weapons as well?

My ideal preference is for nuclear disarmament, but this thread is about the scenario that has been the status quo since World War II, where nuclear weapons have already been developed and are not going to be dismantled for the foreseeable future.

I agree with your ideal preference of having total nuclear disarmament, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

A lot of Americans might believe that it's okay for America to be the sole possessor of nuclear weapons and technology, since (it is believed) we are such a bastion of freedom and an overflowing cup filled with the very cream of human goodness. Some have pointed out how the U.S. had a few years as sole possessor of atomic weapons - and as Reagan pointed out, we could have conquered the whole world if we wanted to. But we didn't. It's for this reason that many may believe that America can act responsibly without the threat of mutually-assured destruction.

Along the same lines, the same mentality perceived America's adversaries (namely the USSR and PRC) as being unable to act responsibly unless they faced a threat of total destruction. It's rooted in the idea that our enemies will only respect strength and that the only way to deal with them is by force or the threat of force. Such a perception carries the implication that our adversaries are seen as aggressive and animalistic.

This basic notion was similar to a few Cold War stumbling blocks which came about when the U.S. wanted to develop anti-ballistic missile technology, the idea being that our ICBM silos would be protected by anti-ballistic missiles which would destroy any incoming ICBMs before detonation. Conceivably, this could allow the U.S. to launch a first strike on the USSR, while the ABMs would take out the Soviets' ICBM counter-attack, minimizing the potential damage in the U.S. This was obviously not received well by the Soviets, who pressed the U.S. into signing the ABM Treaty to prohibit it. Then with Reagan's SDI being talked about in the 80s, that set off the same reaction.

The Soviet view was that, as long as neither side used nuclear weapons against the other, there would be no need for ABMs or SDI. We could rely on each other's good will to ensure mutual survival. The whole idea was that the missiles should never be used, and the Soviets made a "no first strike" pledge which the U.S. refused to make. The U.S. position was that, in the event the Soviets poured into Western Europe in a massive invasion, NATO conventional forces would be so numerically overwhelmed that they would have no other choice but to use nuclear weapons against the advancing troops. The U.S. Cold Warriors would contend that that's what kept the USSR at bay and what eventually brought about the US "victory" in the Cold War.

At this point, I don't think we'll be able to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle, so we may have to look for alternatives, such as building up anti-aircraft and missile defenses, such as ABMs. I had doubts about SDI as to whether it would really work, although if we can't stop people from building nuclear weapons, then the next best thing is to do whatever possible to neutralize their delivery systems.

Other than that, I don't think any nuclear-armed power is going to be the first one to launch, unless they're truly off their rocker. But if their home territory is threatened, then the possibility increases. The bigger worry is if some underground organization sends a terrorist with a bomb in a suitcase somewhere. That's harder to defend against, since you may not really see it coming.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree with your ideal preference of having total nuclear disarmament, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

A lot of Americans might believe that it's okay for America to be the sole possessor of nuclear weapons and technology, since (it is believed) we are such a bastion of freedom and an overflowing cup filled with the very cream of human goodness. Some have pointed out how the U.S. had a few years as sole possessor of atomic weapons - and as Reagan pointed out, we could have conquered the whole world if we wanted to. But we didn't. It's for this reason that many may believe that America can act responsibly without the threat of mutually-assured destruction.

Along the same lines, the same mentality perceived America's adversaries (namely the USSR and PRC) as being unable to act responsibly unless they faced a threat of total destruction. It's rooted in the idea that our enemies will only respect strength and that the only way to deal with them is by force or the threat of force. Such a perception carries the implication that our adversaries are seen as aggressive and animalistic.

This basic notion was similar to a few Cold War stumbling blocks which came about when the U.S. wanted to develop anti-ballistic missile technology, the idea being that our ICBM silos would be protected by anti-ballistic missiles which would destroy any incoming ICBMs before detonation. Conceivably, this could allow the U.S. to launch a first strike on the USSR, while the ABMs would take out the Soviets' ICBM counter-attack, minimizing the potential damage in the U.S. This was obviously not received well by the Soviets, who pressed the U.S. into signing the ABM Treaty to prohibit it. Then with Reagan's SDI being talked about in the 80s, that set off the same reaction.

The Soviet view was that, as long as neither side used nuclear weapons against the other, there would be no need for ABMs or SDI. We could rely on each other's good will to ensure mutual survival. The whole idea was that the missiles should never be used, and the Soviets made a "no first strike" pledge which the U.S. refused to make. The U.S. position was that, in the event the Soviets poured into Western Europe in a massive invasion, NATO conventional forces would be so numerically overwhelmed that they would have no other choice but to use nuclear weapons against the advancing troops. The U.S. Cold Warriors would contend that that's what kept the USSR at bay and what eventually brought about the US "victory" in the Cold War.

At this point, I don't think we'll be able to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle, so we may have to look for alternatives, such as building up anti-aircraft and missile defenses, such as ABMs. I had doubts about SDI as to whether it would really work, although if we can't stop people from building nuclear weapons, then the next best thing is to do whatever possible to neutralize their delivery systems.

Other than that, I don't think any nuclear-armed power is going to be the first one to launch, unless they're truly off their rocker. But if their home territory is threatened, then the possibility increases. The bigger worry is if some underground organization sends a terrorist with a bomb in a suitcase somewhere. That's harder to defend against, since you may not really see it coming.

I agree that nuclear disarmament unfortunately may never happen. It would probably require a unified and simultaneous effort on the part of nuclear powers so that none of them would have a reason to suspect the others wouldn't follow through after it had dismantled its nukes. I don't see this level of military cooperation and trust happening among rival powers, let alone in relation to nuclear arms.

Ever since Russia invaded Ukraine, I have sometimes thought about whether our current way of life would first be upended by nuclear war or climate change. Either of those existential threats is severe enough by itself, but they have loomed together in the last year and a half. If I had children, I can't say that I would be reassured about their future or the kind of world they could live in.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree that nuclear disarmament unfortunately may never happen. It would probably require a unified and simultaneous effort on the part of nuclear powers so that none of them would have a reason to suspect the others wouldn't follow through after it had dismantled its nukes. I don't see this level of military cooperation and trust happening among rival powers, let alone in relation to nuclear arms.

Ever since Russia invaded Ukraine, I have sometimes thought about whether our current way of life would first be upended by nuclear war or climate change. Either of those existential threats is severe enough by itself, but they have loomed together in the last year and a half. If I had children, I can't say that I would be reassured about their future or the kind of world they could live in.

I sometimes wonder about the psychological effect about having a threat of total nuclear destruction looming over multiple generations for the past 70+ years. While most people have gotten on with their lives, it's a thought which always tends to linger somewhere in the back of one's mind. Maybe not so much in recent times, since they stopped talking about it, the fallout shelters disappeared. We used to have films in school about what to do in case of an attack, but I don't think they show stuff like that anymore in schools.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I can't vote for any of the options given that I see the only solution as complete nuclear disarmament so as for them never to be used. Putin and his coterie of flag-wavers has shown that nuclear blackmail can and will be used in support of their own interests and not in defence of their country - the original intention for owning them. I'm still worried that Putin will actually use them eventually, and as such, even if things calm down later (if we aren't all gone by then), such might happen again in the future. World government might be the only option that could see an end to such disasters, but as we know, this is hardly a popular concept and it would take a lot to reach this stage of development.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Not one with any sense would use nukes if they all had them, unfortunately not everyone is sensible so..

My view...
fpp,medium,lustre,wall_texture,product,750x1000.jpg
 
Top