Old question perhaps but are Creation and Evolution really mutually exclusive? I'm not so sure. While I'm a fundemental Christian and accept the six day Creation story as acurrate, I am not what is often called a Young Earth Creationist, at least not in the traditional sense.
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Mutually Exclusive?
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Skwim
Veteran Member
Yes they are, and welcome to RF. Creationists say all life was created a few thousand years ago, whereas evolutionist will tell you it began millions of years ago. This alone is enough to make the two incompatible, although there are many, many other reasons.
Actually Young Earth Creationists say all life was a few thousand years ago, an Old Earth Creationist can accept a much longer timeline, including even millions of years.
The most simplistic OEC position (though I believe to be wrong) is the redefinition of a day in Genesis 1 as an epoc, or something simular.
The most simplistic OEC position (though I believe to be wrong) is the redefinition of a day in Genesis 1 as an epoc, or something simular.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
That doesn't help the fact that Genesis and the geology disagree about the order of things, though.
Hello PolyHedral, your point assumes an all powerful creator who created the entire universe is limited by time. For example, lets assume for a minute that evolutionary theory is right just about exactly as it exists today, AND that it is a process created by God. Now image that his world had no birds, everything else but birds. Then God changed His mind and added birds, where / when does He add them? I suggest He adds them everywhere/ everywhen at once. Past present and future are altered to include birds. And we have no knowlege of birds not existing.
I'm not saying this happened just offering seneiros where our obsevation could be manipulated.
I'm not saying this happened just offering seneiros where our obsevation could be manipulated.
Skwim
Veteran Member
You're correct in pointing out the OEC notion. I was momentarily fixated on YEC's. Let me take another stab. Evolution says that the variety of species we have evolved over time into their present forms: speciation. Creationists say speciation never happened.
Here's what I suggest...
Day 7: Genesis states that God is resting, Adam however is exploring his new surrounding. That night he looks up, does he see stars? If he does (and I think he does) then we have some figuring to do... The closest star to the Earth (after the sun) is 4.2 lightyears away. That means light emminating from that star takes over 4 years to reach Earth. Adam shouldn't see any stars for 4+ years and then he'd only see one.
Perhaps however that God created the stars with the light they emit already in route to Earth. Then stars would be visable that first night. Now when we look at stars we see what that star looked like in the past, way back when that light was created within the star, so if God created a star (or all the stars) with their light already in route to Earth then God created those stars with a kind of "built-in" history, a history that predates the seven days of existence.
Suddenly we find a Earth only days old but stars much older. That seems weird so lets look at the Earth too. What did Adam eat his first day? If the Earth is but 7 days old, and we know that food takes longer then seven days to ripen. Did god create a fig tree seed and plant it and leave Adam to wait the years it'd take before it would been fruit baring? I think not. perhaps God created a mautre fruit tree, teeming with food ready to eat. But if Adam cut down that tree, would he not find rings within the trunk. The rings detail the trees history, a history that would predate the seven days since creation.
I suggent that Adam would require a mature, healthy planet to survive. Therefore if God exists and God created then God must have created a mautre Earth,within a mautre universe. A mature universe that includes a "built-in" history. A built-in history that could easily include evolution.
Day 7: Genesis states that God is resting, Adam however is exploring his new surrounding. That night he looks up, does he see stars? If he does (and I think he does) then we have some figuring to do... The closest star to the Earth (after the sun) is 4.2 lightyears away. That means light emminating from that star takes over 4 years to reach Earth. Adam shouldn't see any stars for 4+ years and then he'd only see one.
Perhaps however that God created the stars with the light they emit already in route to Earth. Then stars would be visable that first night. Now when we look at stars we see what that star looked like in the past, way back when that light was created within the star, so if God created a star (or all the stars) with their light already in route to Earth then God created those stars with a kind of "built-in" history, a history that predates the seven days of existence.
Suddenly we find a Earth only days old but stars much older. That seems weird so lets look at the Earth too. What did Adam eat his first day? If the Earth is but 7 days old, and we know that food takes longer then seven days to ripen. Did god create a fig tree seed and plant it and leave Adam to wait the years it'd take before it would been fruit baring? I think not. perhaps God created a mautre fruit tree, teeming with food ready to eat. But if Adam cut down that tree, would he not find rings within the trunk. The rings detail the trees history, a history that would predate the seven days since creation.
I suggent that Adam would require a mature, healthy planet to survive. Therefore if God exists and God created then God must have created a mautre Earth,within a mautre universe. A mature universe that includes a "built-in" history. A built-in history that could easily include evolution.
I would think that a Creationist is simply a person who believes that this world is the Creation of a Creator. By this definition, you can have a Creationist who accepts evolution.
Though, nowadays, creationism implies a person who doesn't accept evolution.
Though, nowadays, creationism implies a person who doesn't accept evolution.
RitalinO.D.
Well-Known Member
So you believe that God created the earth and let man evolve as he created him?
Also, you say you believe in the 7 day creation. What is your defintion of the 7 days? 7 days as we see it today, or do you believe days held a different meaning then? Perhaps 1 day equal to 1000 years, as a crude example?
ninerbuff
godless wonder
If you're talking creationsim, then yes they are mutually exclusive. Evolution has science to back it, creationism pretends to. When science discovers something new, creationism will conform to it. Science doesn't bend to creationism, while creationism does have to bend to science when applicable.
Ninerbuff- You are correct that while evolution is backed by science, creationism is not. At its core creationism is less about the physical relm but rather about the creation of the physical relm. That is it focus's on the what came first idea, before the physical relm, beyound the scope of science.
Ritilan - I do not subscribe to the redefinition of a day in the Genesis creation story to mean something other then a day. Rather I suggest that God's action of creating, being an act of God exists external to time, and therefore not limmited by our tempral existence.
Asking when did creation happen is meaningless when we consider an extra-tempral perspective. The Days of Creation detailed in Genesis can be accurate but this does not prevent history from continuing much past Genesis 1 Day 1.
Asking when did creation happen is meaningless when we consider an extra-tempral perspective. The Days of Creation detailed in Genesis can be accurate but this does not prevent history from continuing much past Genesis 1 Day 1.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Those four key words disqualify it from being science. If you admin that God could be lying to you, you can't take any scriptures as correct.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
I'm trying to point out that scripture and reality disagree, and no amount of wishy-washing of God will change a mistake in the Book. Once the Scripture is telling you things that do not match up with reality, the only rational thing to do is disregard (that part of) the Scripture.
If you're accepting the idea from Relativity that time is an illusion, the concept of "created" vanishes, really. After all, time itself can't be created, (because to do so, there'd have to be a time before in which time did not exist) it just is. It doesn't make any sense to say that Man was created with a past; in that case, man evolved.
PolyHedral - Agreed there can be no time before time, it makes no sence. However what could exist is an higher plain of existence beyond our physical universe where time does not exist. This reality while weird to our intelect, is possible all be it hard to comprehend.