Mutually Exclusive?

[Katzpur]

Understood, and thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if this was part of the LDS dogma or not.

No problem.

Also, I've heard BYU is a really good school, but I would imagine it would be tough to adhere to their (in my eyes) overly oppressive rules. I know I couldn't, even if I was religious.

BYU is a really good school, but even as a Mormon, I would not have found it to be a good fit for me. I was such a good kid. Even as a teenager, I never gave my parents any reason to worry about what I was up to, but I always figured that by the time a person was in college and away from home, he shouldn't have to have somebody tell him how to dress, what time to be back home for the night or anything else of that sort. Consequently, I chose to get my education elsewhere.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

No problem.

BYU is a really good school, but even as a Mormon, I would not have found it to be a good fit for me. I was such a good kid. Even as a teenager, I never gave my parents any reason to worry about what I was up to, but I always figured that by the time a person was in college and away from home, he shouldn't have to have somebody tell him how to dress, what time to be back home for the night or anything else of that sort. Consequently, I chose to get my education elsewhere.

I don't blame you. I know some people may look at it like a structured environment, but to me it's looks more like 1930's bording school.

Oh well, to each his own I suppose.

 

[rusra02]

I would love to see this evidence for creation. Also, to imply the TOE has fatal flaws is to suggest it has flaws that completely disprove the theory. I would also like you to demonstrate these flaws. A pretty bold statement to be sure.

To see the evidence for creation, step outside your door. (Psalm 19:1)
A young boy asks his father "Daddy, where did our house come from?"
Father: Why, son, it just happened. We drove by here in the car and there it was.
Son: Daddy, where did our car come from?
Father: Uh, it just happened. I found it a few years ago.
Son: Daddy, where did we come from?
Father: Uh, we just happened. Now, let me read my book on evolution.
Son: Daddy, Did your book just happen too?
A house, a car, a book all had a maker. The most 'simple' living thing is infinitely more complex than anything man has ever made. Yet, millions of supposedly educated people attribute all the wonders that they see with their brilliantly designed eyes, and hear with their amazing ears, to blind, purposeless chance.

 

[Gunfingers]

IOW: Houses, cars, and books are just like biological systems and any logic that we can apply to one we should apply to the other.

 

[TheGodHypothesis]

Old question perhaps but are Creation and Evolution really mutually exclusive? I'm not so sure. While I'm a fundemental Christian and accept the six day Creation story as acurrate, I am not what is often called a Young Earth Creationist, at least not in the traditional sense.

Of course they are not mutually exclusive. By why, oh why, do you require the God Hypothesis? It's superfluous to explain natural phenomena. "Why isn't it enough to see a garden is beautiful without imagining Fairies at the bottom of it?" If you "accept" the 6 day creation story as accurate you must also "accept" that there was a White Whale named Moby Dick because you can read the words in a book. You think I'm being facetious but I'm not. The probability of a really intelligent white whale is orders of magnitude greater than an omniscient invisible being.

 

[PolyHedral]

The most 'simple' living thing is infinitely more complex than anything man has ever made.

No, they're not. The most complex thing man has ever created, i.e. modern CPUs, are several orders of magnitude more complex than a simple virus. Biology has never produced components so small as to be completly undetectable by light; Modern transistors are about a tenth the size of light itself.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

To see the evidence for creation, step outside your door. (Psalm 19:1)
A young boy asks his father "Daddy, where did our house come from?"
Father: Why, son, it just happened. We drove by here in the car and there it was.
Son: Daddy, where did our car come from?
Father: Uh, it just happened. I found it a few years ago.
Son: Daddy, where did we come from?
Father: Uh, we just happened. Now, let me read my book on evolution.
Son: Daddy, Did your book just happen too?
A house, a car, a book all had a maker. The most 'simple' living thing is infinitely more complex than anything man has ever made. Yet, millions of supposedly educated people attribute all the wonders that they see with their brilliantly designed eyes, and hear with their amazing ears, to blind, purposeless chance.

Cool story bro...

Just highlights the silliness that fundamentalism creates in society

 

[rusra02]

No, they're not. The most complex thing man has ever created, i.e. modern CPUs, are several orders of magnitude more complex than a simple virus. Biology has never produced components so small as to be completly undetectable by light; Modern transistors are about a tenth the size of light itself.

Reaalllllyyy??? Any ToE advocates want to weigh in on this? CPUs are several orders of magnitude more complex than simple viruses? REALLLLYYY? Ah, well, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Autodidact]

Your definition of creationinst is in error. It is too specific, Yes there are creationists that reject aspects of human scientific understanding, but there are also many biologists that are creationists. A creationist is somebody who accepts God as creator. Theories as to how and when God created differ amoungst creationists.

You would think so, but at least this is not what we usually mean by this word here at RF and in circles which contrast a pro-science, evolutionary point of view with a mythological/biblical point of view. I would use the terms "theist" and "atheist" to describe what you're referring to as "creationist" and "non-creationist." Hence the name of this forum.

 

[fantome profane]

No, they're not. The most complex thing man has ever created, i.e. modern CPUs, are several orders of magnitude more complex than a simple virus. Biology has never produced components so small as to be completly undetectable by light; Modern transistors are about a tenth the size of light itself.

I would like to see a source for this. I don’t know about the CPU’s and the virus part. I guess some viruses are fairly simple and some are quite complex.

But I am quite sceptical about the transistors that are about a tenth the size of light itself. This I would like see. (well not literally "see", if is true it would be impossible to "see")

 

[Gunfingers]

I would like to see a source for this. I don’t know about the CPU’s and the virus part. I guess some viruses are fairly simple and some are quite complex.

But I am quite sceptical about the transistors that are about a tenth the size of light itself. This I would like see. (well not literally "see", if is true it would be impossible to "see")

I'm kind of curious about how big "light" is. Is he referring to photons? Because they have no mass. Hard to be smaller than that.

 

[PolyHedral]

I'm kind of curious about how big "light" is. Is he referring to photons? Because they have no mass. Hard to be smaller than that.

Light has wavelength and cross-section. Mass has nothing to do with it, due to quantum.

I would like to see a source for this. I don’t know about the CPU’s and the virus part. I guess some viruses are fairly simple and some are quite complex.

But I am quite sceptical about the transistors that are about a tenth the size of light itself. This I would like see. (well not literally "see", if is true it would be impossible to "see")

Unfortunately, Google doesn't give me a reliable answer for the number of molecules in a cell. However, I did find stats for one of Intel's latest processors, the i7 model codenamed "Gulftown."

That figure in the header, "32nm", refers to the fabrication process: the "margin" around separate components is supposed to be 32 millionths of a millimetre. This is about 145 silicon atoms across. Also listed is the transistor count: 1.2 billion. Most bacterium have genomes composed of millions of molecules, rather than billions. Also keep in mind that growing a bacterium may give you a neuron; Gulftown could probably run all of RF on its own. (Though I'm not sure how much traffic RF gets.)

 

[Gunfingers]

Light has wavelength and cross-section. Mass has nothing to do with it, due to quantum.

This is what light looks like with a wavelength between 520 and 570 nanometers

This is between 630 and 720 nanometers

Basically, the wavelength of light is not constant. That said I gather you're referring to the wavelength of visible light (380-780nm) because the smallest transistors are 32nm or approximately a tenth of the smallest wavelength of visible light.

 

[PolyHedral]

Basically, the wavelength of light is not constant. That said I gather you're referring to the wavelength of visible light (380-780nm) because the smallest transistors are 32nm or approximately a tenth of the smallest wavelength of visible light.

Yeah, I was vague. People don't generally think of non-visible EMR as "light," despite the two being the same phenomenon.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Light has wavelength and cross-section. Mass has nothing to do with it, due to quantum.


Unfortunately, Google doesn't give me a reliable answer for the number of molecules in a cell. However, I did find stats for one of Intel's latest processors, the i7 model codenamed "Gulftown."

That figure in the header, "32nm", refers to the fabrication process: the "margin" around separate components is supposed to be 32 millionths of a millimetre. This is about 145 silicon atoms across. Also listed is the transistor count: 1.2 billion. Most bacterium have genomes composed of millions of molecules, rather than billions. Also keep in mind that growing a bacterium may give you a neuron; Gulftown could probably run all of RF on its own. (Though I'm not sure how much traffic RF gets.)

This actually reminds me my PC is about due for an upgrade. Those I7 chips are bawls.

 

[rusra02]

This actually reminds me my PC is about due for an upgrade. Those I7 chips are bawls.

Yes, they evolved from lower forms of chips. The PC sprang into existence spontaneously in the 1980's with the 4044. Then evolved into the 8088, the AT, and since has evolved into the powerful machines of today. Of course, we had some evolutionary deadends such as the chiclet PC, and the TI99, and the Commodore, although I hear a living Commodore has recently been discovered after scientists concluded it went extinct.
A computer doesn't have the intelligence of a retarded ant, yet only a fool would say it had no maker.