My Abrahamic Theodicy

[Storm]

Why would a benevolent God Create evil? This question has plagued theologians for centuries. Presumptuous as it may be, I set myself the task of answering this question, and I've struck upon an answer that satisfies me.


If an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent (omnimax) Creator exists, evil must be somehow beneficial to us. So how?


Without evil, “good” has no real meaning. To be truly good, we must be faced with a choice. It is only in the face of suffering that we become compassionate. Evil gives us something to overcome, and in doing so become wiser, stronger, and nobler than we would have been without challenge.


Now, it can be argued that an omnimax God could have simply Created us as wise and noble as He wished. However, in the words of Thomas Paine, “What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly.” If we needn't struggle to be virtuous, we would not understand the value of it.


What say you?

 

[ChristineES]

I agree, a good explanation of evil could be that of choice. In order to have free will, there must be some kind of choice or there wouldn't be free will.

*note- what a person may consider evil may not be evil to someone else.

 

[Magic Man]

If God created us that wise and intelligent and loving, etc., it shouldn't matter how we came by it. He could just make it so that we had just as much wisdom and knowledge as if we had gone through all of the trials, and make us the same way we would have ended up otherwise. That's my problem with it.

 

[Wandered Off]

However, in the words of Thomas Paine, “What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly.” If we needn't struggle to be virtuous, we would not understand the value of it.

As far as I'm concerned, any downside of 'cheaply esteemed' enlightenment would be vastly outweighed by the terrible conditions of having to live among evil. Seems to me gaining at the expense of others is not the most benevolent way it could have been set up.

And the part about free will is true also, although if you assume an omnimax creator (as Storm did for the purpose of this thread), then that being would have the ability to create free will from infinitely many "good" choices. The question would have to be whether the free will to do evil is so valuable.

 

[Storm]

If God created us that wise and intelligent and loving, etc., it shouldn't matter how we came by it. He could just make it so that we had just as much wisdom and knowledge as if we had gone through all of the trials, and make us the same way we would have ended up otherwise. That's my problem with it.

As far as I'm concerned, any downside of 'cheaply esteemed' enlightenment would vastly outweigh the terrible conditions of having to live among evil. Seems to me gaining at the expense of others is not the most benevolent way it could have been set up.

And the part about free will is true also, although if you assume an omnimax creator (as Storm did for the purpose of this thread), then that being would have the ability to create free will from infinitely many "good" choices. The question would have to be whether the free will to do evil is so valuable.

The question is, would we really grok virtue if we didn't have any other options? I don't think we would.

Also, if we assume that God is omniscient, we must defer to His wisdom. If such a God exists, He Created this world as it is, and so must have found it to be the best option.

 

[Magic Man]

The question is, would we really grok virtue if we didn't have any other options? I don't think we would.

Also, if we assume that God is omniscient, we must defer to His wisdom. If such a God exists, He Created this world as it is, and so must have found it to be the best option.

I think, if God is omnipotent, then we could "grok virtue" any way He decided we could.

Yes, if we assume that God is omniscient, but that's a big assumption. I say that He couldn't be because of the way things are.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

God doesn't create evil.

Evil is simply the relative absence of good, just as darkness isn't a real "thing" but simply the relative absence of light!

(The latter is proven, BTW, by the fact that you can take light into a dark room but not dark into a light room.)

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Storm]

I think, if God is omnipotent, then we could "grok virtue" any way He decided we could.

Yes, if we assume that God is omniscient, but that's a big assumption. I say that He couldn't be because of the way things are.

Oh, you know I agree with you. I just enjoy the intellectual exercise.

 

[Magic Man]

Greetings!

God doesn't create evil.

Evil is simply the relative absence of good, just as darkness isn't a real "thing" but simply the relative absence of light!

(The latter is proven, BTW, by the fact that you can take light into a dark room but not dark into a light room.)

Regards,

Bruce

Actually you could take dark into a light room. You could put a heavy blanket over yourself that would block out the light around you thereby creating darkness.

 

[Magic Man]

Oh, you know I agree with you. I just enjoy the intellectual exercise.

I know you do, love. I was just trying to oblige.

 

[Storm]

Greetings!

God doesn't create evil.

According to Scripture, He does.

Evil is simply the relative absence of good, just as darkness isn't a real "thing" but simply the relative absence of light!

Even if I accept your premise, which is not the one used by the OP, God Created a reality in which evil, like darkness, is present. He could have done otherwise, but did not. So, why? The OP is my attempt to answer that question.

 

[ChristineES]

Under that blanket would be a new room, at least I think so.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Without evil, “good” has no real meaning.

What would be the impact of eradicating rape?

 

[Quagmire]

According to Scripture, He does.

Actually, it says we came up with the whole Good/Evil dicotimie;

If you look in Genisis you'll see, "God looked upon all He had made and declared it good".

And, "The man and woman were naked and they were not ashamed".

but then later;

"And they saw that they were naked, and they were ashamed".

Ok, so what happened here? Did nakedness suddenly become evil after A&E ate the "apple"?

Doesn't say that. It just says they were suddenly ashamed of something that God had declared good, and that they hadn't even noticed up til then.

 

[Halcyon]

Greetings!

God doesn't create evil.

Evil is simply the relative absence of good, just as darkness isn't a real "thing" but simply the relative absence of light!

(The latter is proven, BTW, by the fact that you can take light into a dark room but not dark into a light room.)

Regards,

Bruce

You've got it the wrong way around;

Good is simply the relative absence of evil, just as cold isn't a real "thing" but simply the absence of heat!

(The latter is proven, BTW, by the fact that you can take heat into a cold room but not cold into a hot room.)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If you look in Genisis you'll see, "God looked upon all He had made and declared it good".

Perhaps ... perhaps not.

 

[Quagmire]

Perhaps ... perhaps not.

Well, that's what it says now anyway.

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Is there some dispute about what it said originally, Jay?

 

[Halcyon]

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that he had made, and that it was ok, could do better next time. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

 

[Quagmire]

Perhaps ... perhaps not.

Oh, I get ya (I think) "Perhaps the reader will see it, and perhaps not"

 

[Quagmire]

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that he had made, and that it was ok, could do better next time. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Some translations say, "close enough for Goverment work".