My attempt at the Book of Revelations

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi itwillend, understand what you are saying about the concept of satan, and though there is much more to it than that, will leave it at that, thank you for your responses.

 

[led by the spirit]

Once you have a decent understanding of all the other books then Rev. will begin to make sense. It is a cirular book that is read in that fashion.

 

[Muffled]

OK, have no problem with that, but the question still remains, which earthy government, earthy church, and or earthy institution does Revelation/Daniel refer to as beasts, horns, etc..

Now if the beast of Rev. 13:1 and Dan 7:3-7. represent the same earthy institution, which one is it? Though even without yet an reasonable idea as to what it represents, the next questions can be asked. Is the beast of 13:11 that came up out of the earth and had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon, the same as the little horn of Daniel 7:8 that appeared among the ten horns that rooted up three of the horns to make room for itself?

Now we can agree that there are indeed 'dark' spiritual powers behind these beasts and horns, but surely it would be helpful to understand which of the earthy institutions it is that deceive all the people of the world except the elect?

Revelations adds current information that wasn't present in Daniel's day or when Rev. was written. The first is the flying lion which is a symbol for Assyria which was largely in eastern Turkey. Geographically Turkey is a head. (Look at your map.) It has it's jaws open because it stretches across the Dardenelles to Europe. The Bear is the Symbol for the Medo-Persian empire which had its headquarters on the borders of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is Geographically south (at the foot of) of that capitol and looks like a foot. It is like a leopard becasue the countries appear as spots ie. it is not one unbordered country. It is also like a leopard because that is the symbol for the Alexandrian empire which coverd all of the Middle East. IMO the dragon is China because that is their national symbol and they appear to be gaining great power in the world.

I suppose that the lamb that speaks like a dragon could be Russia since it has some Christianity but also sometimes follows the politics of its communistic predecessor and in a sense shares that with China. Historically Russia has been supportive of Middle Eastern countries and a persecutor of Jews.

 

[logician]

Revelation is probably the least important book of the bible. Certainly any prophesies contained therein were not for our time, and it's most likely they wer not "prophesies" at all.

 

[jtartar]

Revelation is my favorite book and the mystery of what we are trying to understand as believers is why i dig into this book so deeply.

Preacher_Lafleur,
The reason we should all read and try to understand Revelation is: Eschatology, Revelation tells us about the end time and the time immediately following.
The problem is; very few people understand what Revelation is saying.
The KEY to understanding Revelation is an understanding the Hebrew Scriptures.
FOR INSTANCE: The Beasts of Revelation are described in detail at Dan Chapters 7, 8. There also is revealed why the Beasts have seven heads and 10 horns: There are seven World Powers that had relations with the Israelites, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medes and Persions, Greece, Rome and the Anglo-American world power, that is the world power at this time. Because there are only seven world powers, it is proven beyond doubt that we are living in the Last Days of this system of things. The ten horns show that these were world rulers, in there times.
What is prophesied at Revelation 19:11-21, is described at Dan chapter 2.
The Harlot sitting on the back of the Beast is the Worls of false religion as can easily be seen by the description of her at Rev 17, and 18. What other entity could be described as riding on the back of this Wild Beast???
Not only is the Bible in complete Harmony but it is also INTRICATE and each scripture is Intertextual, meaning every scripture is related to all other scripture.
The reason for this is; There is a theme to all the Bible!! That theme is the Kingdom of God, with Jesus sitting on the throne over this world, Luke 1:32,33. All the prophets wrote about the Messiah, which turned out to be Jesus, Heb 1:1-6.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi jtartar, interesting post,..would like your (or anyone else) opinion on the following question.

Is the judgement referred to in Daniel 12:1-3 the same event referred to in Daniel 7:26-28?

 

[jtartar]

Hi jtartar, interesting post,..would like your (or anyone else) opinion on the following question.

Is the judgement referred to in Daniel 12:1-3 the same event referred to in Daniel 7:26-28?

ben d,
Yes, the time period is the same, but there is much more to the subject.
Notice that this time period is prophetically spoken of at Dan 7:10-14. This pictures the time that Jesus will be placed on the throne of David. This time period is a very important sign in time, called a temporal sign. This time is one of the very most important times in all the history of mankind.
Almost all of the book of Daniel is prophetic. The prophecy of Dan 4:10-18, tells about an immense tree, that provided food for ALL, and could be seen all over the earth. There could not be a real tree of that size. This tree picture God's kingdom over the earth as it pertained to Israel. Notice that the tree was cut down and banded. This pictured that God would allow Jerusalem along with the Temple made by Solomon, be destroyed, because the Israelites kept being unfaithful to God. But notice the tree was to be unbanded after SEVEN TIMES. This time period pictures the time that the nations would be over God's people, because God's people were brought low.
In the scriprures prophecies sometimes used days to represent years, Num 14:34, Eze 5:6. This is the way the prophecy was at Dan chpter 4. The seven times were seven years. there are 360 days in a prophetic year, 7X360= 2,520 years. God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed by Nebuchadressar in 607BC. Add 2,520 years to 607Bc and we come to the year 1914 AD. This is the year that the prophetic tree would be unbanded. This means that God's Kingdom with Jesus sitting on the throne started in 1914. According to the scriptures Jesus would not extend his power to the earth immediately, but would rule over his people in the midst of his enemies, Ps 110:1-6, 1Cor 15:25.
The same time period is also mentioned at Rev 6:1-8, and Rev 12:1-11. Notice that when Jesus received his crown at Rev 6:2, he does not conquer immediately, but the other three Horses of the Apocalypse must ride first, WAR, FAMINE, DEATH of many kinds. The same is true at Rev 12:1-11 where the Kingdom is born then almost immediately after there is war in heaven. Satan and his angels are thrown to the earth. Think back, what happened in 1914??? WW1 happened and then a little later WW2 and trouble of all kind ever since. Notice Rev 12:12, which speaks of all the trouble that the earth would experience after Satan and his demons are thrown to earth. Can any thing be more clear???
In Dan, the second chapter there is described a huge statue, with a head of gold and so on down to the feet of iron mixed with clay. This is picturing the seventh world power, with is the Anglo-American world power. This is also the same time period of the other prophesies. Notice what happens to this statue, Dan 2:34,35, which is talking about God's kingdom in the hands of Jesus destroying all the governments and setting up a Kingdom that will never be destroyed, Dan 2:44. We are in that time period NOW!!! The same time period is mentioned at Revelation , chapter 13 and 17, 2Tim 3:1-5. This is the time that the earth will be turned over to the Holy Ones of the Supreme One mentioned at Dan 7:18,21,25-27, First the marriage of the LAMB, Rev 19:7-9, then Armageddon, Rev 16:16, 19:11-21.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi jtartar, thank you got your confirmation on the point raised, (and for your brief synopsis of the bigger picture).

Now it seems therefore that the fourth beast of Daniel 7:23-25 (with 10 horns, plus one little horn who replaces three of the horns prior to judgement), the King of the North of Daniel 11:45 (whose royal colony is set up between Jerusalem and the sea prior to judgement), and the Beast of Rev. 19: 20 - 21 (with 10 horns plus the false prophet who set up the image of the Beast (whose head was wounded) for worship) all refer to the same dominant world power!

If this present period is the time referred to in these prophesies, then yes, for Anglo-American-Jewish power presently dominate the world in the area of finance/business/banking, technology, communications media, and military, and it was they more than any other responsible for setting up the present occupation of Jerusalem by immigrants from Europe, USA, Russia, etc.. The other point of note is that little horn of Daniel and the second beast/false prophet of Rev. appear to represent the same power! (It seems to me that if three kings were rooted up by the "little horn", then this would indeed leave a head wound to the beast, and the little horn would need to run things until the wound healed,..WWII perhaps when the Kingdoms of Germany, Italy, and Japan were overrun and occupied by Anglo-American forces.)

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The whole concept of Revelation talking about governments is really counter-biblical. For example when we read in Ephesians

"11": Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
"12": For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Here it is clearly pointing out that spiritual wickedness is the concern of the bible, and not Iran, Russia, Israel, Jerusalem, and all the other elements that make up the ever popular books being sold today trying to make revelation more relevant to people these days.

The words of truth are just not enough for some people, they feel they need more excitement, or something to point to and say a ha!

It was the same in Jesus's day. He told the truth, and it was not what people wanted to hear, so it was mostly rejected by the masses.

 

[lockyfan]

Welcome back

Hmmm... let me see.
What's your take on... the second coming, antiChrist, New Jerusalem, and the Lake of Fire?

Antichrist
made up of more than just one thing, but several things, including the kings of the earth

Second Coming
Jesus taking over as King in Heaven awating Armageddon and then striking with righteous Judgement at Armageddon

New Jerusalem
Is the "Bride of the Lamb. Who is the lamb? Jesus! who is the Bride? The 144000 people who are actually going to heaven. It is a heavenly city put upon the earth to rule over all mankind after the final test from Satan.

Lake of Fire
Eternal destruction,. The reason they are Gnashing their teeth is simply because if you knew you were to be destroyed and had no other chances would you go down without a fight?

Hi itwillend, this question may extend beyond your intended parameters, but do you consider there is a correlation between the beast with ten horns with seven heads of Rev. 13:1, and the four beasts with a total of seven heads and the last of which had ten horns of Daniel 7:3-7?

I definately do beleive there is, as they both are beasts that show respective world powers.

FEROCIOUS AS A LION, QUICK AS AN EAGLE was Babylon who "fiercely devoured nations, including God’s people. As if with the wings of an eagle, this “lion” sped forward in aggressive conquest".


VORACIOUS AS A BEAR
Represents the line of Medo-Persian rulers (539-331 B.C.E.) starting with Darius the Mede and Cyrus the Great and ending with Darius III.


SWIFT AS A WINGED LEOPARD!
This symbolized the Macedonian, or Grecian, line of rulers starting with Alexander the Great and became 4 headed after Alexander died (as they split his kingdom into 4)


FEARSOME AND TERRIBLE AND UNUSUALLY STRONG
This is Rome or the Roman empire which then leads into the 10 Horns. The number 10 in the bible means completness therefore the 10 Horns represent all the Kingdoms that Rome split into.

The small horn that gained assendancy is the "Anglo-American World Power" (Brittain being the original small horn and America a colony of Brittain)

The Wild beast in revelation here is what each "head"stood for
(1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Neo-Babylonia, (4) Medo-Persia, (5) Greece, (6) Rome, and (7) the dual world power of Britain and America

when revelation was written by John, Rome was the world power the first five had fallen and the last had yet to become a world power.

The "Wild Beast that "springs from the seven (rev 17:11) is the scarlet coloured beast that destroys Babylon the great.

 

[lockyfan]

The whole concept of Revelation talking about governments is really counter-biblical. For example when we read in Ephesians
"11": Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
"12": For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Here it is clearly pointing out that spiritual wickedness is the concern of the bible, and not Iran, Russia, Israel, Jerusalem, and all the other elements that make up the ever popular books being sold today trying to make revelation more relevant to people these days.

Yes very true, but as wa mentioned before in a previous post Daniel 2:44 states that the worldly Kingdoms will be crushed by God's Kingdom.

We also know from other scriptures that the worldy Kingdoms of today are allowed their time by God (this was the times of the nations/gentiles) and that while the times of the nations/gentiles is actually over (as Gods Kingdom now firmly established in the heavens) then it will soon be time for Gods kingdom to be on the earth


And yes while Spiritual wickedness is a concern of the bible, the main concern is that of Jehovahs Sovreignty, which is what was questioned. The "sanctification"of Jehovahs name is the very first thing that is prayed for in the Lords Prayer. You see it is not a prayer that is to be copied and recited, but it is used as a way of know what to pray for and particularly what order ot pray for it.

1. God's Name being sanctified
2. Gods kIngdom to come
3. God's will to take place in heaven (which at that time it was satan still had free access to heaven) and then upon the earth (after his restriction from heaven)
4. Our food for the day (whether spiritual or physical)
5. Forgiveness of Our Sins as we forgive those who sin against us
6. Then second to last protection from Spiritual Wickedness
7. Last but not least, protection and dleiverance from Satan and his wiles and world.

Seven things to pray for
Seven in the bible often symbolises completness

 

[Muffled]

The small horn that gained assendancy is the "Anglo-American World Power" (Brittain being the original small horn and America a colony of Brittain)

The Wild beast in revelation here is what each "head"stood for
(1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Neo-Babylonia, (4) Medo-Persia, (5) Greece, (6) Rome, and (7) the dual world power of Britain and America

when revelation was written by John, Rome was the world power the first five had fallen and the last had yet to become a world power.

The "Wild Beast that "springs from the seven (rev 17:11) is the scarlet coloured beast that destroys Babylon the great.

Although Britainand the USA have gained power in the world, it has remained a friend of israel. The first six all were enemies of Israel and overran the country. Britain did hold power there for a while but not over a nation of Jews.

There was a power that started by overthowing three countries, one of which was Israel somewhere around 666 CE. That power still exists as an eenmey to Israel to this day.

 

[sojourner]

I wouldn't go to someone for information who claimed to have expertise in behavioral patterns of deers. Why would I want information from someone who claims to have studied Revelations?

 

[lockyfan]

Although Britainand the USA have gained power in the world, it has remained a friend of israel. The first six all were enemies of Israel and overran the country. Britain did hold power there for a while but not over a nation of Jews.

There was a power that started by overthowing three countries, one of which was Israel somewhere around 666 CE. That power still exists as an eenmey to Israel to this day.

It is over the entire earth not just Jews.

America and Brittain are linked, what ever America does the rest of the world pretty much follows. THe "Jews" are spread over the entire surface of hte earth now.


Oh and sojourner, you didnt come to me I only wrote what i believe to be true. I am not trying to make you believe it. Believe whatever you want to believe, but I know the bible is correct and tat this is what it is teaching everyone if they care to pay attention.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It is over the entire earth not just Jews.

America and Brittain are linked, what ever America does the rest of the world pretty much follows. THe "Jews" are spread over the entire surface of hte earth now.


Oh and sojourner, you didnt come to me I only wrote what i believe to be true. I am not trying to make you believe it. Believe whatever you want to believe, but I know the bible is correct and tat this is what it is teaching everyone if they care to pay attention.

Lockyfan, unfortunately what you are doing is a mixture of wishful thinking with a little bit of Nostradamus effect.

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. For every riddle you think you have solved, there are three guys around the corner with a different solution to the same riddle. The pride in which you write the things you do, only acts to push people way instead of bringing them closer.

If you were to accept the fact we can only speculate on such things, and find ways to come together on things we can be sure of, I think you would have better success.

I hope you think on these things I have said.

 

[true believer]

The second coming already happened and the harvest is in progress ( the ressurection is in progress ). The end will come when God decides there is no one left to be saved.

 

[Shamuwn]

After reading the mess that was in the other post titled revelations, I thought I would give it a try. I am particularly fond of this book, as a lot has been revealed lately.

Any questions?

Can you explain Revelation Chapter Nine ???

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Can you explain Revelation Chapter Nine ???

Sure, this chapter touches many areas of the bible, and ties a lot of loose ends up. This chapter discusses time during judgment, and what will be happening to those that never received salvation. The time has passed when one can be saved, and those that remain are starting to see the judgment of God. This judgment is to last 5 months.

If there is something specific you would like to hear from my perspective, let me know. Otherwise I can not assume exactly how much detail you want from me.

 

[Shamuwn]

Sure, this chapter touches many areas of the bible, and ties a lot of loose ends up. This chapter discusses time during judgment, and what will be happening to those that never received salvation. The time has passed when one can be saved, and those that remain are starting to see the judgment of God. This judgment is to last 5 months.

If there is something specific you would like to hear from my perspective, let me know. Otherwise I can not assume exactly how much detail you want from me.

Thankyou for you answer but can you use chapter & and verses from the Scriptures .

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Thankyou for you answer but can you use chapter & and verses from the Scriptures .

Sure, but pelase answer this first. Are you waning to debate my ideas? Or are you open to hearing new perspectives?

Thanks...