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My Chat with Jews For Jesus

Alt Thinker

Older than the hills
I used to encounter Jews for Jesus in the subway all the time. My consistent impression is that they sound a whole lot more like fundamentalist Christians looking to convert Jews than Jews who believe in Jesus. Among other things, asking questions about their supposedly Jewish background generally got less than believable responses. More to the point they usually knew a lot more about evangelical Christianity than about Judaism. And Yiddishisms, when I could work them in, went unrecognized. Them: Have a safe ride home. Me: Kina Hora Them: What? :D
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
The vast majority of J4Js may be "for Jesus," but they are not Jews. I have only encountered a few who actually were Jewish by birth (none who became J4J after getting a halachically valid conversion to Judaism), and nearly none who actually had quality Jewish education in their background.

The overwhelming majority of J4Js are just Judaizing evangelicals.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I get the sense that having a good working knowledge of Jewish tradition, language, expressions, values and culture is probably far more important than being Jewish by birth.

I even dare to guess that this is probably the deciding factor for most Rabbis (at least Orthodox and Conservative ones) when they have to tell people whether they can expect to ever succeed at Conversion.

How much of a consensus on these matters there would among the Jewish People? Can you give me some idea of how controversial, if at all, such a notion is? Sorry if I am asking unproper questions, never mind me.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
I get the sense that having a good working knowledge of Jewish tradition, language, expressions, values and culture is probably far more important than being Jewish by birth.

I even dare to guess that this is probably the deciding factor for most Rabbis (at least Orthodox and Conservative ones) when they have to tell people whether they can expect to ever succeed at Conversion.

Shalom Luis

Converts are people that are not Jewish by birth that want to become Jewish. As part of their conversion process, they need to learn the traditions and language.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
I get the sense that having a good working knowledge of Jewish tradition, language, expressions, values and culture is probably far more important than being Jewish by birth.

I even dare to guess that this is probably the deciding factor for most Rabbis (at least Orthodox and Conservative ones) when they have to tell people whether they can expect to ever succeed at Conversion.

How much of a consensus on these matters there would among the Jewish People? Can you give me some idea of how controversial, if at all, such a notion is? Sorry if I am asking unproper questions, never mind me.

Having a good working knowledge of Jewish tradition, observance, and language is important if one is to be an effectively participatory member of the Jewish community. As such, we traditionally value Jewish education highly, and thus we also instruct those who come to us for conversion that they must be willing to educate themselves thoroughly in regard to these things-- and of course we help them to do so.

As a Conservative rabbi who has aided quite a number of people to convert, I have never yet encountered someone who was serious enough about conversion to approach a rabbi and ask for it, yet who was unwilling or uninterested in acquiring Jewish education. The sense I get is that if one is interested in traditional Judaism or Jewish observance, the potential body of knowledge available and the value of education is actually one of the attractions. I am not sure I have heard from any of my Conservative or Orthodox colleagues more than one or two anecdotes about isolated cases of people asking for conversion but balking at studying.

In any case, traditionally what we look for in members of the Jewish community is commitment, value of traditional knowledge, observance, participation. We have never cared whether they came in the form of someone Jewish by birth or Jewish by choice (i.e., conversion). In fact, throughout our history as well as today, some of our most brilliant, effective, inspiring, and contributory Jews were converts.

To what degree these things hold true in the non-halachic movements (Reform and Reconstructionist, and the minor fringe communities) is a matter of debate, and is also difficult to measure, since commitment to education, value of traditional observance, and the ease and effectiveness in Jewish Law of conversion varies far more from community to community, synagogue to synagogue, rabbi to rabbi, in those movements than tends to be true in the halachic movements.
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
Having a good working knowledge of Jewish tradition, observance, and language is important if one is to be an effectively participatory member of the Jewish community. As such, we traditionally value Jewish education highly, and thus we also instruct those who come to us for conversion that they must be willing to educate themselves thoroughly in regard to these things-- and of course we help them to do so.

As a Conservative rabbi who has aided quite a number of people to convert, I have never yet encountered someone who was serious enough about conversion to approach a rabbi and ask for it, yet who was unwilling or uninterested in acquiring Jewish education. The sense I get is that if one is interested in traditional Judaism or Jewish observance, the potential body of knowledge available and the value of education is actually one of the attractions. I am not sure I have heard from any of my Conservative or Orthodox colleagues more than one or two anecdotes about isolated cases of people asking for conversion but balking at studying.

In any case, traditionally what we look for in members of the Jewish community is commitment, value of traditional knowledge, observance, participation. We have never cared whether they came in the form of someone Jewish by birth or Jewish by choice (i.e., conversion). In fact, throughout our history as well as today, some of our most brilliant, effective, inspiring, and contributory Jews were converts.

To what degree these things hold true in the non-halachic movements (Reform and Reconstructionist, and the minor fringe communities) is a matter of debate, and is also difficult to measure, since commitment to education, value of traditional observance, and the ease and effectiveness in Jewish Law of conversion varies far more from community to community, synagogue to synagogue, rabbi to rabbi, in those movements than tends to be true in the halachic movements.
Good post
 

roger1440

I do stuff
If you didn’t scare off those sweet innocent guys who were trying to save your soul from the eternal flames of hell, what would you have said to them?
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
If you didn’t scare off those sweet innocent guys who were trying to save your soul from the eternal flames of hell, what would you have said to them?

Precisely what's in the chat. I would add that I think proselytizing ignorant people is wrong.
 
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