My Defination of Relgion and Faith

[Hawkins]

Or it could be that, regardless of whether or not there is a life after death, they feel that they have lead a good life and will leave the world having made it a better place than before they existed in it?

Just a thought.

Not really.

You can only have a peace of mind when what lies ahead is not a threat to your life. In the case that you don't know what lies ahead, the only thing left could give you the peace of mind is your faith, with or without your own awareness!

You don't need to consider the threat lies ahead most likely because you have already subconsciously assume that life won't continue. That's remains your own faith without your awareness though.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You can only have a peace of mind when what lies ahead is not a threat to your life. In the case that you don't know what lies ahead, the only thing left could give you the peace of mind is your faith, with or without your own awareness!

False. You can go ahead, without knowing or worrying about it, in the assurance that whatever may come you have done the best with the time that you had. If you are incapable of doing that, and you are instead preoccupied with a possible future that you have no control over, then you have clearly lead a sad and unfulfilling existence.

 

[Hawkins]

False. You can go ahead, without knowing or worrying about it, in the assurance that whatever may come you have done the best with the time that you had. If you are incapable of doing that, and you are instead preoccupied with a possible future that you have no control over, then you have clearly lead a sad and unfulfilling existence.

Unless you don't care about your life!

For the sake argument, we assume that it's true that hell fire awaits ahead.

What brings a peace of mind before you die? It's the assumption that it's not true that actually brings peace to your mind, unless you don't care about your life to consider its possibility.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Unless you don't care about your life!

Hence, a sad and unfulfilling existence.

For the sake argument, we assume that it's true that hell fire awaits ahead.

What brings a peace of mind before you die?

Everything I just said. I repeat (with added emphasis) :

"You can go ahead, without knowing or worrying about it, in the assurance that whatever may come you have done the best with the time that you had."

 

[Riverwolf]

You can only have a peace of mind when what lies ahead is not a threat to your life.

...death is the cessation of life. How can anything afterwards be a threat to something that no longer is present?

 

[Riverwolf]

For the sake argument, we assume that it's true that hell fire awaits ahead.

What brings a peace of mind before you die?

The knowledge that I'll be going to the significantly more interesting of the two choices.

 

[Hawkins]

...death is the cessation of life. How can anything afterwards be a threat to something that no longer is present?

That's exactly what your faith is, which ImmortalFlame failed to realize!

 

[Riverwolf]

That's exactly what your faith is.

So... you don't believe that death exists?

 

[Hawkins]

So... you don't believe that death exists?

That boils down to how you define death. Have you heard of how people research into NDEs?

 

[Riverwolf]

That boils down to how you define death.

Exactly what I gave: the cessation of life.

...well it's a bit more complicated than that, but for our purposes, this will suffice.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That's exactly what your faith is, which ImmortalFlame failed to realize!

Don't make assumptions about me when you barely know anything about my positions.

 

[Hawkins]

Exactly what I gave: the cessation of life.

So in your definition, soul doesn't exist. Is that correct?

It remains your faith to believe so. That's the point!

 

[Hawkins]

Don't make assumptions about me when you barely know anything about my positions.

Simply point out what you might have missed out!

Riverwolf is just demonstrating that he actually has a faith that he failed to realize!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So in your definition, soul doesn't exist. Is that correct?

It remains your faith to believe so. That's the point!

It doesn't take faith to disbelieve something for which there is no good reason to believe.

Not that it's relevant, because Riverwolf never said anything about the soul.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Simply point out what you might have missed out!

What does that even mean?

 

[Hawkins]

It doesn't take faith to believe in something for which there is no good reason to believe.

Not that it's relevant, because Riverwolf never said anything about the soul.

There's no good reason to believe that life will cease to continue after a physical death, besides the fallacy that "the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence".

Ask people why they research into NDEs? They research into NDEs because they don't neglect the possibility.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There's no good reason to believe that life will cease to continue after a physical death, besides the fallacy that "the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence".

You don't have to. You just have to hold the position "I have no good reason to assume that there is any form of life after death".

Ask people why they research into NDEs?

Because they're an interesting psychological phenomenon (and also because people are gullible). NDE's can be dismissed as evidence for life after death with one word: near.

 

[Riverwolf]

So in your definition, soul doesn't exist. Is that correct?

I dunno. Define soul, first. Then we can talk about whether it exists or not.

It remains your faith to believe so. That's the point!

It's what we pretty clearly observe, and there's pretty much no reason to go against what our senses can detect unless there are good arguments for doing so on a given topic.

 

[Riverwolf]

Simply point out what you might have missed out!

There's a lot of afterlife scenarios I'm likely to miss out on for not dying a certain way, or not following a certain deity. I miss out either way, so what's it to me?

I mean, I'm a Heathen, but because I have no intention of dying in battle, I'm going to be "missing out" on both Valhalla and the Folkenfields.

Besides, I don't even wanna live forever.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

UGH, I hate the word "worship." We don't all worship something, I hate the term and the entire idea of worshiping something. I don't worship anything, it's a word that demeans the person doing the worshiping if you ask me.



It's a poor use of the word. Just because someone doesn't believe in God, doesn't mean they are arrogant. That's what you're saying here, someone who "worships their own understanding of the world" is arrogant. You can have a certain understanding of the world and believe you are correct, without "worshiping" anything.



How would increased intellect lead to MORE blind faith? We see the opposite if you want to look at the statistics.



Egads, this old chestnut. There is nothing less self-evident than a 'creator who made everything.' In fact fewer and fewer people every year believe in such a thing. The old idea of a creator deity is rapidly fading. The only reason you believe it is because you were raised to believe it.

You suggested arrogance in the OP, in that he "worships his own understanding of the world." Isn't that exactly what have you done here? You have stated your personal understanding of the world and then labeled it "self-evident" as if everyone should see it your way. As if your understanding of the world is so obviously correct that everyone should easily see it. In fact, those who don't see it your way have a "hardened heart", right? How are you not behaving in the same way as you accuse the OP? How are you not worshiping your personal understanding of the world?

Worship is a synonym for trust. Something is steering our rudder. What we worship is what steers it. I have an understanding of the world but it was given to be by God, or so I believe. I didn't come up with it independently of God which is what people who worship themselves and their own powers of intellect do. You don't like the term 'worship' because of its connection to religion. Somehow people that worship creation as oppose to the creator think they aren't religious just because they can see what they worship. And I understand why. They fancy themselves as being more sophisticated than their backwards peers who refuse to let go of ancient belief systems