my question no. 2 on Islam? allah's knowledge complete??

[shubhamgarg1993]

I had another thread where i asked a question on islam which was..
where will a good non muslim go heaven or hell?
i got answer by one muslim friend Badran >>>

If he is a good person, then he will go to heaven based upon my understanding

. :clap


and another answer from another muslim friend eslam >>>

Allah will not send him to paradise because he never accepted that Allah is the ony god and that Muhamed is his messenger.

the thread of question 1 lies here


now my second question==>>

allah brough out revealations as Torah (taurat), Psalms of David (zabur), Bible (injeel), and Quran...

now my question is
Is knowledge of allah complete or incomplete?
if knowledge is complete then what mistakes were left in the first edition that he had to send a secon book to correct them? as if one leaves some defect in first book, he publishes a second edition to get them corrected. has allah also made mistakes in previous books??

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argument 1:: the books got corrupted with time so He had to send another books. but now quran will not be corrupted because allah has taken duty to protect quran from being corrupted on Himself !!

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this argument cannot be accepeted because it arises these questions:

))why quran will not be corrupted, who has changed?
allah has changed or people have changed that they will not corrupt books now?

)) why allah did not take duty of protecting older books?

)) did he not knew that people will corrupt books?has he learned this from experience? one who learns from experience does not have complete knowledge.

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argument 2:: since human beings and human mind has evolved from a long time hence new books were given.As a student gets different books in different standards hence different were given with evolving human mind.
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this argument cannot be logical because it arises these questions:

))books are changed when a student has passed and understood old books completely. have people completely understood old revealations?

)) new books are given to same student who was given old books. are today's people same people who had been given torah etc.? does this mean you are accepting rebirth?

))has human mind stopped to evolve after quran? has it stopped evolving after mohammad? instead we see that human thinking , surroundings etc. changed most in 20th century.

 

[zenzero]

Friend subham,

Very surprising that someone can claim to know that humans who developed words and languages have developed the concept of the *whole* which humans in various cultures have labelled differently and that *allah* is one of them besides each form that is seen or unseen as no-forms are all messengers of the whole as they are its constituents.
So minds which is unable to transcend gets stuck at some point which spells doom/jahannum.

Love & rgds

 

[Gharib]

the scriptures where revealed when humanity changed with time.

At the time of Prophet Adam it was permissible for a brother to marry his sister due to the very few people that they were at the time.

And unlike the other revelations which were for only 1 nation, the Qur'an is for all nations (the whole world). just as Moses and Jesus were prophets only to the Children of Israel and not to other people like the Persians and Romans. each scripture contained specific laws for those specific people although the overall message was the same, All Prophets Called their People to Worship One God - Allah. and to Submit to His will and obey His commands.

Allah didn't make any mistakes in the other scriptures so that he needed to "publish" another corrected version. As Humanity progressed and changed, he gave us Laws that would fit us rather than live by the laws of those before us. there is no point in a law that says you should marry your sister because there are very few humans, because now there are plenty of humans and so God gave us his new law by way of revelation.

 

[shubhamgarg1993]

the scriptures where revealed when humanity changed with time.
At the time of Prophet Adam it was permissible for a brother to marry his sister due to the very few people that they were at the time.

sorry!! you want to say that according to islam human civilization is result of copulation in brothers and sisters??
i can't share such a shameless claim.

And unlike the other revelations which were for only 1 nation, the Qur'an is for all nations (the whole world).

so what about people in other countries during the time before quran??
what would happen to those people? your this claim brings blot on allah being partial.. that he kept large part of world without his knowledge for long time.

there is no point in a law that says you should marry your sister because there are very few humans, because now there are plenty of humans and so God gave us his new law by way of revelation.

i think that there was never a point in marrying your own sister.
marrying own sister is wrong both morally and scientifically( children produced are with grave diseases).
how can god justify a immoral act for sometime and then change his mind and say "no no.. now onwards it would be a sin to marry your sister, who married before today they are ok"".
allah should have put it already in the first revealation that after this much time don't marry your sisters.
what was the need to bring another revealation and put people in confusion what to believe?

 

[Gharib]

sorry!! you want to say that according to islam human civilization is result of copulation in brothers and sisters??
i can't share such a shameless claim.

of course you can't share that claim, your religion teaches differently. you believe that our civilisation is a result of animals copulation.

so what about people in other countries during the time before quran??
what would happen to those people? your this claim brings blot on allah being partial.. that he kept large part of world without his knowledge for long time.

According to Islam, God sent prophets to all nations on earth, at various stages of their histories. The Holy Quran says:

"And for every nation there is a messenger." (10:47)

"And there is not a people but a warner has gone among them." (35:24)

i think that there was never a point in marrying your own sister.

that is your belief, thats fine.

marrying own sister is wrong both morally and scientifically( children produced are with grave diseases).

you failed at understanding my example. back then they had different laws, ie. a brother and sister could get married and there was nothing wrong about it morally nor scientifically, this 'wrong morally and scientifically' is a law of our time, not of theirs.

how can god justify a immoral act for sometime and then change his mind and say "no no.. now onwards it would be a sin to marry your sister, who married before today they are ok""

.

who gets to decide what is moral and what is immoral, you or god?

allah should have put it already in the first revealation that after this much time don't marry your sisters.

wow, very good.

what was the need to bring another revealation and put people in confusion what to believe?

i'm sorry but i already answered this in my previous post, please read it.

 

[shubhamgarg1993]

of course you can't share that claim, your religion teaches differently. you believe that our civilisation is a result of animals copulation.

i dont know from where are you getting this ?
Vedas clearly proclaim thousands of man and woman were produced in the begining. so no question of brothers and sisters copulating !!
its just quranic view that brother sister copulation is ok in beginging.!!

we deviated a little coming to main questions//

As Humanity progressed and changed, he gave us Laws that would fit us rather than live by the laws of those before us.

have humanity stopped progressing after prophet mohammad ? has human mind still and surroundings became still after quran? why then knowledge is sealed at quran?

 

[Gharib]

i dont know from where are you getting this ?
Vedas clearly proclaim thousands of man and woman were produced in the begining. so no question of brothers and sisters copulating !!

doesn't hinduism teach about reincarnation and evolution? if it does then it would be correct to say that according you your beliefs, our civilization is a result of animal copulation. if we comapre what scientists say about human history then it is only recently that humans came to exists, everything was one kind of animal or another until we humans climbed out of trees.

its just quranic view that brother sister copulation is ok in beginging.!!

all abrahamic faiths view it this way, not just islam.

have humanity stopped progressing after prophet mohammad ? has human mind still and surroundings became still after quran? why then knowledge is sealed at quran?

humanity has not stopped progressing, so long as we still exist we will continue to change in one way or another. an example of our progression is that 1400 years ago at the time of our Prophet there was no technology while now we have reached a great technological era.

but what i must mention is that we will not come to such a change that would require a new law/scripture to be revealed. Thus the qur'an is the last revelation until the end of this world.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Is knowledge of Allah complete or incomplete?

God's or Allah's knowledge is total and complete, yes!

But ours is, of course, incomplete, though it's my understanding that it will be greatly increased in the Next Life.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

For those who did not follow the earlier post.
We are humans who have evolved from animals which everyone understands except those whose minds have not evolved/developed.
God is a word a label and this word is interchangeable with so many other depending on the culture and language used in that culture and words like bhagwan, allah are also few of the interchangeable word.
This word or label is for an understanding; understanding of a concept and the concept is very simply that the totality of all forms [all that can be seen] and no-forms [those like air etc which are unseen] when put together as a *WHOLE* is what God means and in reverse we in human forms are its constituents of this whole.
We are parts of God and never separated. We feel separated as the mind in the form creates thought vibrations and this vibration creates a barrier or distortion in perceiving TRUTH as it is. It is like a lake of clear water when having ripples on its surface the view of the bottom of the lake is impossible and so we have to wait for the ripples to subside and that requires patience. Meditation is similar, it is patiently waiting for the ripples in the mind to subside and then only TRUTH remains neither the meditator or the meditated remains only TRUTH or CONSCIOUSNESS remains.

Meaning that this state is what is termed as enlightenment and has been reached by many humans including Jesus, Mohammud, Gautama, Mahavira, Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi etc. and potentially each human can reach the state as he is born in the same state and is a part of the *whole*; meaning it is not special for anyone to claim to be the only unique creature in this existence to reach the state. Those who reach the state automatically become revealer or mediums for existence to evolve further to point a path to others by which they too can reach such a state.

Any claim is again of the mind which is a thought wave a distortion of truth.
Lao Tsu had started writing Tao te Ching with this message itself that what can be spoken off or described is not the real Tao.
Tao too is another word for that *whole*.

Love & rgds

 

[susanexpress]

interesting post

 

[susanexpress]

doesn't it??

 

[Koldo]

but what i must mention is that we will not come to such a change that would require a new law/scripture to be revealed. Thus the qur'an is the last revelation until the end of this world.

Does the islam make this claim?
Could you refer to the source?

 

[BruceDLimber]

[E]verything was one kind of animal or another until we humans climbed out of trees.

[A]ll abrahamic faiths view it this way, not just islam.

You couldn't be more mistaken!

The Baha'i Faith is both eminently Abrahamic AND states that humans have always existed and were never the same as animals!

What i must mention is that we will not come to such a change that would require a new law/scripture to be revealed. Thus the qur'an is the last revelation until the end of this world.

So sorry, but you're incorrect!

Indeed, there have already been two reveleations since Islam, and while they both recognize and respect both Muhammad and the Qur'an, not even their revelations are the last because there will ALWAYS be further Divine Revelation!

And the idea that the Qur'an states it's the end of Revelation is only one of several very different interpretations of this verse! In particular:

• First off, there is a sense in which EVERY Divine Messenger is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the Seal!

• Next, there are multiple Arabic words that all translate into English as "prophet."

One of these is "nabi," which refers to a minor prophet such as Jeremiah or Amos.

Another is Ras'ul, which means a major, religion-founding Divine Messenger like Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha'u'llah (our Founder). (And yes, Muhammad was a major--not a minor--Prophet.)

But the word actually used in the Qur'an is "nabi," meaning Muhammad was the Seal of the minor prophets! This says nothing whatever about the great Divine Messengers.

• Muhammad is also the Seal in the sense that He was the last Messenger during the Prophetic Age, which began with Adam and ended with Him. The Bab then closed out that Age and opened the Age of Fulfillment, of which Baha'u'llah is the first major Messenger.

• Finally, there is a sense in which the word commonly translated as "seal" also means "ornament," so that this verse of the Qur'an may simply be saying that Muhammad is the Ornament of the prophets! (Nothing whatever about any sort of finish.)

Peace,

Bruce