My question to Trump Supporters

[pearl]

Perhaps it might need to be fine tuned, but not eliminated.

Especially the process, which seems to have become corrupt, of acquiring within the states.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Lesser of two evils is the argument?

That's the best justification they've got, at least that they're willing to admit publically, most of them. Few are willing to openly admit "I was duped" and/or "I'm bigot and voted for Trump to hurt the Mexicans/Blacks/Gays/liberals/insert targeted 'other' group of choice" as their justification, but I'm pretty confident that those are the ACTUAL reasons the majority of Trump supporters, especially those STILL claiming to support him, supported him in the first place. Of course there are exceptions, but talking majorities...

And now watch as the resident Trumpettes try do shift goal posts, change the subject, double down on the whataboutism, or straight up refuse to acknowledge even seeing the comment, anything to avoid an outright denial of what they know is true but can't bring themselves to admit.

 

[2ndpillar]

but everything Trump has done has been bad, its not just about his character, his legislative agenda sucks big time, more pollution, more poverty, more racism, less taxes to run the government, record deficit, crazy stuff, he's a bad, bad President

I don't know which rabbit hole you fell in, but the poverty rate is down, the employment rate is at record levels, the pollution is probably less because of the use of cleaner gas, while the total energy consumption is about the same except that the Middle East and Venezuela are no longer the beneficiaries. The short energy consumption spike this winter is probably the result of global cooling. The employment level of blacks and Latinos is at record levels. Your Obama had a deficit higher than the combined deficit of every president that preceded him.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

but everything Trump has done has been bad, its not just about his character, his legislative agenda sucks big time, more pollution, more poverty, more racism, less taxes to run the government, record deficit, crazy stuff, he's a bad, bad President

Well, he's said some vaguely positive stuff about prison and medical testing reform, as well as mooted a 5G network, but yeah, that nowhere near outweighs the bad. Dumpster fire that his administration is, I think it's important to give credit where due. Too much of politics today is tribal side taking where we dusagree with the other sude because they're the opposition, not because of what the policies actually are. So I'm prepared to say "not EVERYTHING Trump does is bad", but, you know, Hitler had some good ideas about animal welfare and public health, so let's not pretend a dusting of icing sugar on top of a cow pat makes it a cake.

 

[esmith]

but everything Trump has done has been bad

Well, he's said some vaguely positive stuff about prison and medical testing reform, as well as mooted a 5G network, but yeah, that nowhere near outweighs the bad. Dumpster fire that his administration is, I think it's important to give credit where due. Too much of politics today is tribal side taking where we dusagree with the other sude because they're the opposition, not because of what the policies actually are. So I'm prepared to say "not EVERYTHING Trump does is bad", but, you know, Hitler had some good ideas about animal welfare and public health, so let's not pretend a dusting of icing sugar on top of a cow pat makes it a cake.

Would those of you who are dumping on the President please list what laws he has signed or EO's that you feel is "bad". You also need to give the reason each one is "bad" and how it negatively affects you or the country directly. No, tweets are nothing but words and if you are smart enough you would realize that

 

[Revoltingest]

Yup. Even the economic growth has continued at the same rate since Obama left, unemployment hasn't been dramatically reduced, and homelessness continues to plague certain parts of America. Minorities are losing protections and rights, science is facing direct opposition, and racism and misogyny are finding empowerment. Fortunately, however, many businesses and cities have not been as eager to neglect the environment as the President who seems to believe clean coal is made clean by having the miners brush it off and polish it up. And his ignorance of nuclear policy is frightening.

You've listed Trump related effects you dislike.
But are there any which you find positive?

 

[Lyndon]

Positives, well Trump has made a mockery of America, and America deserves to be mocked, it has a long history of mucking up the world!!

 

[esmith]

Positives, well Trump has made a mockery of America, and America deserves to be mocked, it has a long history of mucking up the world!!

If you don't like living in the U.S. there is always different countries, it's your choice.

 

[Lyndon]

Actually its some other people I don't like living in America, and its not my choice at all

 

[Revoltingest]

That's the best justification they've got, at least that they're willing to admit publically, most of them.

The word, "justification", doesn't apply because it's predicated on supporting
a decision made for other reasons. When faced with only 2 possible choices
(with possibility of winning), the lesser of 2 evils is a sound basis for one's
decision.
Would you propose voting for the greater of 2 evils? Of course not.

Few are willing to openly admit "I was duped" and/or "I'm bigot and voted for Trump to hurt the Mexicans/Blacks/Gays/liberals/insert targeted 'other' group of choice" as their justification, but I'm pretty confident that those are the ACTUAL reasons the majority of Trump supporters, especially those STILL claiming to support him, supported him in the first place. Of course there are exceptions, but talking majorities...

And now watch as the resident Trumpettes try do shift goal posts, change the subject, double down on the whataboutism, or straight up refuse to acknowledge even seeing the comment, anything to avoid an outright denial of what they know is true but can't bring themselves to admit.

Now, if I were to respond in kind, I might say.....
"Few are willing to openly admit "I was duped" and/or "I'm a corrupt sexist war
monger and voted for Hillary to hurt Muslims/blacks/gays/conservatives/business
/ insert targeted 'other' group of choice" as their justification, but I'm pretty confident
that those are the ACTUAL reasons the majority of Hillary supporters, especially
those STILL claiming to support her, supported her in the first place. Of course
there are exceptions, but talking majorities... "

Of course, I wouldn't say such a thing. My point is that if one dwells too much
on demonizing the other side, & doesn't attempt to understand, then one will
be filled with blind hate. And then we get threads like this one....they pretend
to want to understand, but it's naught but to challenge & rage at us.

 

[Lyndon]

Except that in this case, you and many others clearly chose to vote for the greater of two evils!!

 

[Revoltingest]

Except that in this case, you and many others clearly chose to vote for the greater of two evils!!

The above post illustrates the blindness which afflicts so many anti-Trumpers.
There's no analysis behind ranking one higher than the other. There is only
the presumption of having The Truth. When one has that, why even bother
to consider other views, eh?

I can see cromulent reasons why people would vote for or against Trump,
& simultaneously recognize why they'd vote for or against Hillary.
Try more understanding & less hating. It can make things clearer.

 

[esmith]

Actually its some other people I don't like living in America, and its not my choice at all

you've got feet don't you?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If you don't like living in the U.S. there is always different countries, it's your choice.

I've always despised that sort of argument.

Look, it is not necessarily a bad thing to see something that you honestly feel is bad for your nation, and to set about, in your own small way, trying to change it for the better. I think the First Amendment had just that in mind. I don't think it behooves anyone to fall back on hackneyed old "America, love it or leave it" rubbish.

 

[Kenny]

Especially the process, which seems to have become corrupt, of acquiring within the states.

Corrupt is the whole of the political system IMV with just a sprinkling of honesty. Even judges are now corrupt.

 

[esmith]

I've always despised that sort of argument.

Look, it is not necessarily a bad thing to see something that you honestly feel is bad for your nation, and to set about, in your own small way, trying to change it for the better. I think the First Amendment had just that in mind. I don't think it behooves anyone to fall back on hackneyed old "America, love it or leave it" rubbish.

No I was not expounding that alternative. All I was saying is that if one does not think things will change to your satisfaction within your lifetime then go where you will be happier.
Just as those that are leaving CA for another State because they don't like the way CA is operating and don't think it will change, those same principle can be applied to a country. If you think that one should stay and make their country better what do you say to those that are seeking residence in the U.S. Under your hypothesis they should stay there and change it for the better (which I believe they should do).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What's the connection with the Electoral College, slaves could not vote anyway?

So they couldn't get more influence in the election just by having a larger population, to let other states have other means of bypassing that. Slave owners made up a huge chunk of potential voters, so if you can turn their many into a few while turning a few into many, all across the board state owning slaves were not able to use that to a political advantage, and it would take more than a few Southern states to overcome the smaller but more numerous Northern states.
Today it's the smaller, rural states that are finding empowerment to overcome to larger cosmopolitan states. And it's not over a humanitarian crises but their belief they have the right to make religious based legislation that leads them on.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You've listed Trump related effects you dislike.
But are there any which you find positive?

He's the second politician I've been unable to say anything good about (Pence was the first). He had one shining moment after the election when he told people to knock off the ****, but that was it. I can't even say I felt that much of a difference with his tax plan.

 

[Revoltingest]

He's the second politician I've been unable to say anything good about (Pence was the first). He had one shining moment after the election when he told people to knock off the ****, but that was it. I can't even say I felt that much of a difference with his tax plan.

That's not really an answer to my question.
It's about his effects, not him as a person.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's not really an answer to my question.

He's the second politician I've been unable to say anything good about