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My scientific refutation of anthropogenic climate change

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
David Starkey said that in the seventies they were predicting an ice age. I don't know who 'they' were, but it's David Starkey and he's on the television. Also, Taylor Swift goes everywhere in a private jet.

There. That shows it's possible to type garbage arguments against climate change. Now I'll show you a real scientific one:


Would you believe it? I definitely have a real scientific refutation of anthropogenic climate change, but when I tried to type it there was a mysterious force field that stopped my fingers reaching the keyboard. I'll try again later when it has hopefully gone.

It is a real scientific argument though.
No. "They" were not. You are conflating a popular news story about the work of a very small number of scientists with the majority. The popular press has traditionally been very unreliable since they are interested in what is new. They do not check to see how well accepted it is. There will always be some scientists that disagree with others. That is what makes the sciences work. Those that disagree will try to refute the works of others. In this case a group of scientists, a very small one., disagreed with the majority. They never made their case, but it made for a good news story because it was different.

You really should quit using this argument.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I'm almost ready to publish my one-hundred-percent scientific argument which indisputably proves that anthropogenic climate change is a myth.

The only thing I haven't decided on is how to introduce it. What do you think? Which of these would be the best way to start my opening sentence?

Option A:
I don't know much about climate science, but...

Option B:
The thing I don't understand about global warming is...

Option C:
If climate change is real, then how do you explain all these celebrities who...
How about

"Now, I'm not one of these fancy coat-wearing science-y types, I'm just an old-fashioned country boy who loves my God and my country, but I reckon..."

Dependant on your accent, of course.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
when I tried to type it there was a mysterious force field that stopped my fingers reaching the keyboard.
It's called "integrity". It would help you in the sciences, but you'll never make it in politics or sensationalist media.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Science is supposed to be open to all theories and not a consensus of bullies strong arming descent. Galileo was one man against the consensus of obsolete, fighting to remain relevant. Science is supposed to look under every rock, since something can be learned, even in failure. The way global warming ,then marketed as the more nebulous climate change, also does not accept anything that can threaten the status quo. That is the influence of politics in science, like the Church funding of science, at the time Galileo.

Water is still the dominate chemical that controls climate. We do not need a consensus vote of opinion, since this a fact. Real Science is about fact and not a consensus of opinions. The oceans; liquid water, are a huge heat sink that allows the earth not to overheat. If there were no oceans, the average surface temperate would be 155F.

Water has a huge heat capacity and it takes a lot of heat to alter liquid water even one degree. There are so many ways to store heat in the hydrogen bonding. The desert sands have a low heat capacity, so they can go from freezing at night to over a 100F in a matter of a dozen hours. Water will not heat up or cool that fast, under the same conditions. Water has to many ways to store heat. This is why cities, which have composed of man made construction materials, ,will heat faster than nearby forests, since forests contain lots of plant water.

All the construction materials needed for 8 billion people is a major contributor to global warming. This replaced forests. Does the CO2 crowd give man made material the credit is deserves or is this extra heating lumped into CO2? Construction increased exponentially, in the same time period as the CO2 time frame. In 1800, there about 1 billion people on earth, with mostly wood structures and fewer black top roads and roofs Wood siding and roofs, will stay cooler than concrete and asphalt found in modern cities.

A forest fire is probably the biggest extended heat source on the planet. The forest fire generates lots of CO2. It also consumes the plants that otherwise would absorb CO2; double CO2 whammy due to loss of CO2 and lower uptake in the future, than can linger for decades. The forest fire also removes the plant water from a large zone of land, that would cool the surface, and replaces that water with black charm that heats up the same land much faster. A forest fire can extend to a million acres in a matter of a few weeks. That is like 400,000 city blocks. Fossil fuel is mostly just CO2 without the other three heater effects. Forest fires have a quadruple effect.

Top 13 Largest Wildfires in History | Earth.Org

Spoiler alert: the largest record forest fire in history was in 2003 in Siberia and burned 55 million acres. I hope the knuckleheads are not fudging man made climate change with the huge quadruple effect of that 2003 fire. Number 2 is in Australia in 2019/20 and took 42 million acres. The model did not predict these natural changes in their natural average assumptions. The models have little predictive value, especially for the natural spikes.

Currently, the man made approach tries to normalize and average natural warming and natural climate effects, but drills into man made. How about we do another study the opposite way, where we simple average man made and drill deeper in each aspect of natural. Man made is more predictable since it is decided by business and government. CO2 is a one trick pony and my guess is the current science is not advance enough to go the other way. Water has a dozen tricks, all by itself. Casino science is not the best tool to use.

Water vapor is a global warming gas. It is the main global warming gas in the atmosphere.

CO2 makes up only about 0.04% of the atmosphere, and water vapor can vary from 0 to 4%. But while water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas in our atmosphere, it has “windows” that allow some of the infrared energy to escape without being absorbed.
Where the humidity is low, such as the desert, there is less water vapor in the atmosphere, however the heat capacity of desert sand is lower. Desert can heat up faster and more heat can escape. But along the equator, where humanity is higher and the oceans are warmer, water is dominant by a factor of 100 times concentration. Hurricanes are dependent on water not just for their substance, but also the extra green house gas effect over the warm water oceans. CO2 is way over rated being a minor player and one trick pony.

Water vapor as clouds; unique phase of water, tends to block the sun. When a cloud passes by, it feels cooler under the shadow. How do you model all the forming and evaporating clouds and humidity differences, and even rain fall, upper level cool air descending, to get a real time reading of global solar heating as a function of water? There was a MIT scientist who worked on this, but he was black balled, but lasted due to tenure, until they finally block him out.
 
On a serious point, suppose someone genuinely believes that they have made an absolute Eureka discovery which objectively overturns an established scientific theory which has repeatedly been confirmed for decades. How seriously do they expect to be taken if, in their presentation, they include something anyone can debunk by consulting the 101 beginner's introductory guide to the topic?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I'm almost ready to publish my one-hundred-percent scientific argument which indisputably proves that anthropogenic climate change is a myth.

The only thing I haven't decided on is how to introduce it. What do you think? Which of these would be the best way to start my opening sentence?

Option A:
I don't know much about climate science, but...

Option B:
The thing I don't understand about global warming is...

Option C:
If climate change is real, then how do you explain all these celebrities who...
Loved the word 'anthropogenic'.
It might have helped lots of readers (like me) if you would have told us that it basically means 'caused by humanity'.

Can we start with 'climate change' please?

Do you accept that Earth's climate has changed significantly over time? The most obvious measurement for CC is Ice ages and sea levels.
So I need to know whether you accept that Earth's climate has changed severely in the past, and also whether it is changing now.

Until I know how you think about that I can't approach such questions as 'how does it happen'. OK?

Do you believe that the climate is changing now?
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Why Climate Change is a Definitely a Scientific Hoax


...but if it real then it is good and we can't do anything about it, and shouldn't try because right wing think tanks keep giving me money to say this


Chapter 1

The left wants to kill your children and trans them into socialists who hate success....
 
I've got a video here which refutes anthropogenic climate change. It's recorded in LP mode so it's eight hours long.

Let's see.

Parts of Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient Truth' that are inaccurate, a bit about climate scientists recommending we fly less and then flying to a conference, what's-her-face the Scandinavian brat who's now an anti-Israel blogger...

It'll get on to the scientific refutation soon, I'm sure.

A chart whose X and Y axes have been relabelled by Christopher Monkton, some YouTuber who got over-excited about some emails he misread and managed to get on television to talk about them, a senator with a snowball...

Oh. The tape's run out. They must have sent me the wrong one.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I'm almost ready to publish my one-hundred-percent scientific argument which indisputably proves that anthropogenic climate change is a myth.

The only thing I haven't decided on is how to introduce it. What do you think? Which of these would be the best way to start my opening sentence?

Option A:
I don't know much about climate science, but...

Option B:
The thing I don't understand about global warming is...

Option C:
If climate change is real, then how do you explain all these celebrities who...
I would point out all the proven natural climate change, that the earth has done, confirmed by science, over the past billion years. I would ask those who think this time is different, to show me any year in the past 100 years, that did not break some climate or weather record. Climate change is normal, however, the scam is to make you believe this never happened before, and what you see today is unique to man, and not more of the same. I remember larger thunderstorms when I was younger based on flooding.

The fact is, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas on earth. Weather is all about clouds and rain water. Molecule for molecule, water vapor is as strong as CO2 in terms of being a greenhouse gas. But water concentration, due to evaporation, clouds and rain can vary, from little atmospheric water to over a hundred times the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere; desert to equator. Since CO2 is so small and 1-D; one trick pony, we should model the water instead, since it is far more complex and powerful, due to phases changes from gas to liquid; rain.

For example, the huge Hurricane Helene that flooded the Southeast USA, was made of 99.99% water. It formed in the Gulf of Mexico; over warm water, where the percent of water in the atmosphere, is very high this time of year; 4%. CO2 was of minor consequence, with atmospheric water the key to the entire hurricane and its dynamics.

People died from floods of water not CO2 inhalation. The release of all that water from the atmosphere, cleared out the water in the atmosphere. The green house effect of the water, was able to shift in days, over a wide range, due to condensation effects. When all that water vapor condenses into rain, the water vapor looses 1100 times its volume. This loss of gas partial volume/pressure, in the atmosphere pulls a vacuum; low pressure, and winds of warm water get sucked into the storm to accelerate condensation. The storm surge is also composed of water. Why blame CO2 when it was out of its league and influence.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I would ask those who think this time is different, to show me any year in the past 100 years, that did not break some climate or weather record.
The earth is breaking multiple records every year at a rate outpacing previous records in both frequency and intensity. More areas are in drought and experiencing extreme heat. Fires are bigger and more frequent, as are tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and blizzards. Insurance rates for property is increasing and unavailable in some areas now. Property values are falling in areas experiencing severe erosion and landslides as well as those other disasters. The nightly news is now continually featuring weather events as the lead or second story.

And there are multiple other proxies for global warming such as glaciers shrinking, ocean levels and temperatures rising, changes in natural cycles as with local weather patterns and animal migration patterns, and coral reef atrophy with blanching. As you'll see below, what's happening in the insurance industry is an indication that global warming and worsening extreme weather are real things now.
Climate change is normal, however, the scam is to make you believe this never happened before,
Anthropogenic climate change has never happened before. The scam is the claim that all of these changes are natural.
water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas on earth
But not the one initially driving climate change. That's CO2 and to a lesser extent, CH4 and N2O.

As the earth heats, its atmosphere can hold more vapor, which contributes to temperatures rising as well. From Scientists assess potential for super greenhouse effect in Earth's tropics – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet:

"When Earth’s surface gets hotter, more evaporation occurs, which releases water vapor into the atmosphere. “Water vapor is a greenhouse gas. When more of it is in the air, it traps even more heat and radiates it back down to the surface,” says Mark Richardson, a postdoctoral scholar at JPL. “That extra infrared heat evaporates more water vapor, which traps more heat, then, in turn, evaporates even more water vapor, and so on. It becomes a feedback loop."
the huge Hurricane Helene that flooded the Southeast USA, was made of 99.99% water. It formed in the Gulf of Mexico; over warm water, where the percent of water in the atmosphere, is very high this time of year; 4%. CO2 was of minor consequence, with atmospheric water the key to the entire hurricane and its dynamics. People died from floods of water not CO2 inhalation.
The immediate cause of death in a hurricane is going to be wind or water related, not temperature, but the water was warmer than normal due to global warming, which is generating more frequent, more powerful, and longer lasting hurricanes.
The storm surge is also composed of water. Why blame CO2 when it was out of its league and influence.
CO2 emissions were the first step leading to those taller and more severe storm surges.

The last climate deniers to come around will be providing a service to somebody. Homes and businesses in the progressively less habitable regions are already falling in value and becoming more expensive to insure. Some insurers are already withdrawing from such regions. This will get worse and worse until many of these structures become uninsurable and not worth as much as their mortgages. Think of it as a game of musical chairs, with the smartest owners selling at full value earlier, and those still unaware of what's happening buying them for more than they will be able to sell them for in five, ten, or twenty years. The last to come to terms with reality will be stuck with unsellable, uninsurable homes that will burn or blow down before long.

Here's an example of how all of this is affecting insurers and those they insure:

Hurricane Debby Is Fading; Florida’s Hellish Insurance Crisis Isn’t

Some may find this of interest. As recently as 2021 and 2022, Asheville was being touted as a climate haven

1727802257462.png


Here's what it looks like this week:

1727802330568.png


Here's more on that. From https://newrepublic.com/article/186526/hurricane-helene-asheville-climate-havens?

"The idea of a “climate haven” is a seductive one: that some places will be relatively insulated from extreme heat, stronger hurricanes, and any number of other threats posed by rising temperatures. That’s all the more enticing if you’ve got the means to move to one of those places. Some cities have even started advertising themselves as “climate refuges” in order to attract warming-weary—and relatively well-off—new residents."

This is the modern reality. If you're one of those well-to-do people referred to in the paragraph above that moved to Asheville, your home, which you likely paid top dollar for due to its favorable location, just dropped in value assuming it's still standing. I'd say that renting is becoming a lot more attractive than owning for those who have a choice. Let somebody else hold the mortgage and pay to insure the structure, and if things change in few years and your area becomes subject to extreme weather, you won't need to sell to move to a more desirable location.

Don't be the last to recognize this reality.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I have to wonder which credentials, if any, the OP has to claim to have a "scientific refutation"...

It is really shameful how deep some people will stoop in order to sustain their denialism.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I would point out all the proven natural climate change, that the earth has done, confirmed by science, over the past billion years. I would ask those who think this time is different, to show me any year in the past 100 years, that did not break some climate or weather record. Climate change is normal, however, the scam is to make you believe this never happened before, and what you see today is unique to man, and not more of the same. I remember larger thunderstorms when I was younger based on flooding.

The fact is, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas on earth. Weather is all about clouds and rain water. Molecule for molecule, water vapor is as strong as CO2 in terms of being a greenhouse gas. But water concentration, due to evaporation, clouds and rain can vary, from little atmospheric water to over a hundred times the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere; desert to equator. Since CO2 is so small and 1-D; one trick pony, we should model the water instead, since it is far more complex and powerful, due to phases changes from gas to liquid; rain.

For example, the huge Hurricane Helene that flooded the Southeast USA, was made of 99.99% water. It formed in the Gulf of Mexico; over warm water, where the percent of water in the atmosphere, is very high this time of year; 4%. CO2 was of minor consequence, with atmospheric water the key to the entire hurricane and its dynamics.

People died from floods of water not CO2 inhalation. The release of all that water from the atmosphere, cleared out the water in the atmosphere. The green house effect of the water, was able to shift in days, over a wide range, due to condensation effects. When all that water vapor condenses into rain, the water vapor looses 1100 times its volume. This loss of gas partial volume/pressure, in the atmosphere pulls a vacuum; low pressure, and winds of warm water get sucked into the storm to accelerate condensation. The storm surge is also composed of water. Why blame CO2 when it was out of its league and influence.
b2h5c.jpg
 
For those of you here who are convinced you have come across something that none of the world's climate scientists has considered (e.g. that not one single person in the field of climate research anywhere on earth has thought 'I wonder if water plays a role?'), what is stopping you from submitting your theory to an independent, peer-reviewed, scientific journal?
 
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