My Setianism

[blackout]

For all new members to RF who probably have no knowledge of Individual Religion Forums (DIR) rules...

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that Dir are permitted. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

 

[Kori Houghton]

For all new members to RF who probably have no knowledge of Individual Religion Forums (DIR) rules...

Thank you for posting this, It makes perfect sense that aspirants or adherents to a particular path would wish not to have their discussions disrupted by those who don't share their beliefs. However, the paragraph you quoted does not address persons posting misleading -- or even blatantly false -- information about outsiders who have done nothing to provoke this treatment.

I would have thought that the appropriate response for any of these forums if a newbie proposes blending any unpopular practice with any individual religion would be something like we don't think this fits with our beliefs/values/practices because.... rather than the sect you mention has never existed/was a sham created to offend/etc etc. I think disagreement can be constructive when all parties are committed to their own flavor of the pursuit of Truth, but intentionally misleading comments are merely rhetorical.

If you feel the need to ban me from posting and/or censor out all my posts, I won't be at all offended. I've read this forum occasionally for about a year now, and would have remained a lurker had some folks I respect not been misrepresented here. I've read plenty of posts I disagreed with, but disagreement is to be expected in any arena where ideas are discussed and requires no response from an outsider.

 

[blackout]

I'm not an RF moderator Kori,
but a fairly longstanding member.

There are always the general discussion and debate boards as well
if you want to take a subject to that area,
as they are open to everyone for participation.

I know relatively little about the current topic of contention,
and while I am not disinterested,
I'd rather see the discussion in a thread specific to that topic.
It's not uncommon at all that a side topic from one thread
is turned into a thread of it's own,
so as not to completely derail the original thread.

I would love to see more threads in the Setian section
begin with a TOPIC and stay with that topic
without being derailed by all kinds of side issues.
(that may have something, little or nothing at all to do with the original topic of the thread)

My post of rule 10, ALSO was not pointed solely or directly at you Kori.
It seems there is a regular influx of new posters to the setian forum,
especially lately since Magister Adams has joined us.

I am thankful to have both Magister Adams and Sireal here from the ToS,
and would hate to see either of them leave
over the general inability of our Setian forum to stay on a topic
without constant (and sudden) contention.
I am ALSO and EQUALLY thankful
to have certain of the independent Setians and Setian friendly LHPers here that we do.
They contribute intelligently and thoughtfully to meaningful discussions and give rise to valid insights.
I would hate just as much that they left on account of unecessary and continual contention within the Setian forum.

Whatever. I don't WANT to make these kinds of threads anymore.
I am NOT a moderator, and I don't want to be one.

I will however, continue to post rule 10 when I feel it may be helpful.

I also think new posters to the Setian forum should state outright
weather they are Setian or not.
I have NO IDEA for example, what Kori's relation to Setianism is,
because all her title says is "not religious".

I also think there should be ONE thread for "Temple Vrs. Non Temple" discussion/debate.
I am personally sick of seeing it crop up in half the threads or more.

I'll look later to see if one already exists,
or better yet I'll just create a new one,
and redirect traffic as necessary.

 

[Sireal]

From ONA pdf. "We The Drecc, heretical outlaws of the sinister"

"We are The Drecc - those who belong to the sinister kindred of what, in OldAeon-speak, was and is
exoterically known as "The Order of Nine Angles", composed as our sinister kindred now is of sinister
tribes, and of more traditional nexions, spread across the planet we call Earth.

We are Drecc - those who bring conflict; who vex others; who tempt others; who seek to defy the limits
and laws set and imposed by The Mundanes. We are heresy, chaos, disruption, conflict, terror, combat,
temptation, and also forbidden pleasures and forbidden joy.

Thus do we have as one of our signs The Dreccian Moons of Baphomet: She who is symbol, image,
archetype, acausal-presencing, of our Culling of The Mundanes, of our dark, sinister, terror, and of the
coming restoration of the sinister feminine.

To us - as it says in our missive, Dark Warriors of The Sinister Way - belong practical sinister, amoral,
deeds. For we are sinister. We are amoral. We are heresy, and outlaws, and often lurk in the margins of
society, in the shadows, there between the light and the dark.

We, of The Drecc, seek to gather ourselves in tribes, just as we live, and we strive to die, by our own
rules, by our own laws, for we have contempt and disdain for all the laws and all the societies, forms and
Institutions, of The Mundanes. "

just doing your job eh

Top that off with eugenics~Good luck with that guys

Sireal bids you~ Good day.

 

[L.Keane]

This original esoteric philosophy is now attracting the attention of some academics, as witness the recent academic conference on world Satanism in Norway, where two papers were presented about the ONA, and its unique LHP approach.

PointyHat,

I would like to step off-topic for a moment to address your ONA posts. I presented a paper at the conference and you are right, the ONA presentations were of great interest to the participants of the conference; at least they were to me. One thing I observed at the conference was that the cosmology, practice and current manifestation of the ONA presented a great deal to wrap one's head around--not the least of which was the centrality of the Galactic Empire. All this to say, I think it inevitable that ONA discussions would be of interest to the LHP but would be buried here in a Setian forum. Perhaps, with your obvious knowledge, you could take the time to post a reference thread in the LHP (Satanism) forums that people to link to?

Xeper,

Lloyd

 

[Valor]

:banghead3

 

[KHPR]

I've started a thread under the LHP forum for the ONA. I feel any discussion of the ONA should be moved there and not be brought up under the "My Setianism" thread. The ONA is not affiliated with the ToS and never has been so it would be best for us to stay on topic here.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[Daelach]

For all new members to RF who probably have no knowledge of Individual Religion Forums (DIR) rules...

That brings up an intersting point. This rule is made for religions like Xtianity where they hold their beliefs dear. But what is Setianism about if not to question one's beliefs? How to xeper when the Setian does not want to question them? He would remain the same forever, would he not? And that would be the opposite of xeper.

So, since Setianism is a very special religion, the guidelines will have to be interpreted in a way that they still can make sense to us. And that will rather not be the same as for Xtians or Muslims who react offended when their belief is questioned. They BELIEVE. Setians, however, do not WANT to believe. They want to KNOW.

 

[KHPR]

That brings up an intersting point. This rule is made for religions like Xtianity where they hold their beliefs dear. But what is Setianism about if not to question one's beliefs? How to xeper when the Setian does not want to question them? He would remain the same forever, would he not? And that would be the opposite of xeper.

So, since Setianism is a very special religion, the guidelines will have to be interpreted in a way that they still can make sense to us. And that will rather not be the same as for Xtians or Muslims who react offended when their belief is questioned. They BELIEVE. Setians, however, do not WANT to believe. They want to KNOW.

Daelach,

What you're talking about is different that what UV was talking about. It's not about questioning, it's about bashing the ToS, usually from bad or incorrect information.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[blackout]

The DIR rule refers to NON SETIANS in the Setian section.

 

[PointyHat]

I would like to step off-topic for a moment to address your ONA posts. I presented a paper at the conference and you are right, the ONA presentations were of great interest to the participants of the conference; at least they were to me. One thing I observed at the conference was that the cosmology, practice and current manifestation of the ONA presented a great deal to wrap one's head around--not the least of which was the centrality of the Galactic Empire.

Thanks for the reasoned and interesting reply.

We can discuss this on the new ONA thread in the LHP section, perhaps?

All this to say, I think it inevitable that ONA discussions would be of interest to the LHP but would be buried here in a Setian forum. Perhaps, with your obvious knowledge, you could take the time to post a reference thread in the LHP (Satanism) forums that people to link to?

Indeed, and a most excellent suggestion. A new ONA thread is there, now, I understand.

 

[Darth Brooks]

There are Setians and there are setians. With capitalized "S" I refer to those who are member of the organization. The lowercase "s" refers to those doing work outside the framework of the Temple.

That's fair enough - just as long as ToS members don't expect those of us on the outside to do the same thing. I've been referring to myself as a "Setian" with a capital "S" for a while now and I'm not about to stop. I prefer to use it with a capital "S" for anyone who worships and/or emulates Set.

This was what I said previously. We do our work inside and outside the Temple. If it weren't for us coming into being in 1975 there wouldn't be a Setian subforum today.

Personally I think there's a lot more people who deserve credit for that than just the Temple of Set. Counting back from the Temple, I'd list Kenneth Grant and the Typhonian O.T.O., the Church of the Eternal Source (for starting the first reconstruction of Egyptian religion I'm aware of in 1970), Anton Szandor LaVey, Aleister Crowley, and all the nineteenth century Egyptologists whose hard work made it possible for us to know about the ancient Setian beliefs and practices in the first place.

Abusing animals and children is not the Setian way of thinking.

I wholeheartedly agree.

You didn't come up with the term Setian, we did.

No, you didn't. The term "Setian" existed in print as far back as 1914. I cite my sources in the "Setian and setian" thread. (I'd post the URL here for convenience, but I'm apparently not allowed to post URLs just yet.) Technically, the Temple of Set isn't the first organization to have used the word "Setian" as a self-descriptor, either. Kenneth Grant used the word from time to time as a synonym for "Typhonian" in his works, the first of which - his Magical Revival - was published in 1972.

You won't find a mention of the word Setian or Setianism prior to 1975.

Again, I mean no disrespect, but this claim is provably incorrect. The word "Setian" appeared in Egyptological sources prior to 1975. So far as I know, you are the first people to add the "-ism" at the end, but that's it. For my own part, I prefer to add an "-ity" to the end instead (i.e., Setianity).

What Dr. Aquino came up with that founded the Temple of Set and others such as Don Webb built upon are the reasons you even have a chance to use the word "Setian" today.

While I agree that the Temple has done quite a bit of work to further the current Setian revival, none of you can rightfully claim ownership over the label. Nor can you rightfully claim to have "invented" it. I think you deserve respect and credit for your accomplishments, but "inventing" the word "Setian" is not one of them.

Just because you're read the books doesn't mean you're the same as us. We've been inside the Temple, you are on the outside looking in. I'll use an analogy that I've used before when working with Adepts toward the Priesthood. You are in a room and there is a glass door to another room. You can see the people inside and imitate their actions so that you might appear to be like them, but you are not one of them until you pass through the door and are in that room.

It's certainly true that a person who isn't a member of the Temple has no right to say he's a member of the Temple, or to pass judgment on what goes on within its ranks. But by the same token, members of the Temple have no right to say that non-members can't be Setians. It's like listening to the Pope say you can't be Christian unless you're with the Catholic Church. I respect the Temple for all the hard work it's achieved, just as I respect the other people I mentioned for their important contributions. But I don't need the Temple's validation or approval, nor do I expect it.

 

[Sireal]

Darth, Firstly, Welcome to the forum, it is great to see non-Temple members with a strong affinity for the Brush-Eared One, there a few here. I'm thoroughly enjoying your posts and precision.
I found this on line:

Khepher-I-Suti,

I believe this is your site, if not I apologize, but it is a great site about the history and various manifestations of Set and very well done.

The Temple of Set is not a remake of the ancient Setian tradition and this is what I believe was Magister Adam's point, though I can not speak for him. It is however one I share with him.

In my own understanding the term Setian as we in the Temple define it is a very New construct. I am confident as well that Grant et al were not thinking in the same terms as today's Setian Religion in Set's Temple does. In effect the Temple is the first manifestation of a distinct LHP Setian Religion and no one has ever done this prior to 1975. Grant mentions Set and culls some interesting points relating to Set that he uses, from what I recall of his work, its been a number of years since I've read him, Crowley does as well and even LaVey, but none of them defined a unique and complete philosophy of a LHP Setian Religion from their excursions into that realm, they merely used what they were drawn to in it and leave it at that. So I stand by Magister Adams on this point. Your own research is bang on though and I am not trying to discredit it, though I would like to add some books that may be of interest to your own reading list. I would say though, that there is a mystery in this for you
Anyway, well met and I look forward to further engaging you.

Edit:"I don't believe a person has to be affiliated with any group to be one of Set-Typhon's chosen ones. Set-Typhon chooses His own, and neither He nor the people He chooses need validation from anyone else." (DB-from "of Setian and setian")
and I heartily agree with you! However, there is nothing on this planet like Set's Temple and the path of Setian Initiation, it makes for a much deeper/clearer experience of the Prince of Darkness in its First Form we call Set. I hope this helps clear up the issue of Setian/setian for our purpose on this list.

 

[Darth Brooks]

Darth, Firstly, Welcome to the forum, it is great to see non-Temple members with a strong affinity for the Brush-Eared One, there a few here. I'm thoroughly enjoying your posts and precision.
I found this on line:

I believe this is your site, if not I apologize, but it is a great site about the history and various manifestations of Set and very well done.

Yep, that's my site all right. Thank you.

The Temple of Set is not a remake of the ancient Setian tradition and this is what I believe was Magister Adam's point, though I can not speak for him. It is however one I share with him.

In my own understanding the term Setian as we in the Temple define it is a very New construct.

That is fair, and quite true. I completely agree that the Temple's version of "Setian" is very new. Just not that the Temple invented or has an exclusive right to the word with a capital "S." My own approach is more of an attempt at reconstructing the ancient Setian tradition (though of course, no modern reconstruction can ever be exactly like the original religion upon which it is based, as many reconstructionists have learned).

I am confident as well that Grant et al were not thinking in the same terms as today's Setian Religion in Set's Temple does.

Also agreed.

In effect the Temple is the first manifestation of a distinct LHP Setian Religion and no one has ever done this prior to 1975. Grant mentions Set and culls some interesting points relating to Set that he uses, from what I recall of his work, its been a number of years since I've read him, Crowley does as well and even LaVey, but none of them defined a unique and complete philosophy of a LHP Setian Religion from their excursions into that realm, they merely used what they were drawn to in it and leave it at that. So I stand by Magister Adams on this point.

It's definitely true that previous interpretations were, well, different. (Especially Grant's.)

Your own research is bang on though and I am not trying to discredit it, though I would like to add some books that may be of interest to your own reading list. I would say though, that there is a mystery in this for you
Anyway, well met and I look forward to further engaging you.

Thank you, and I am always interested in expanding my reading list. I would greatly appreciate that.

Edit:"I don't believe a person has to be affiliated with any group to be one of Set-Typhon's chosen ones. Set-Typhon chooses His own, and neither He nor the people He chooses need validation from anyone else." (DB-from "of Setian and setian")
and I heartily agree with you! However, there is nothing on this planet like Set's Temple and the path of Setian Initiation, it makes for a much deeper/clearer experience of the Prince of Darkness in its First Form we call Set. I hope this helps clear up the issue of Setian/setian for our purpose on this list.

I certainly agree that the Temple of Set is very different from any other group that's out there, and I believe its members deserve quite a bit of credit for playing a major role in bringing Set's mysteries into the contemporary environment.

 

[L.Keane]

Darth,

You have some fantastic and powerful images on your website. Thank you very much for creating such a great Space.

Xeper,

LK