My support for hedonism

[Spockrates]

Well, we do know that how we define good value and worth in our lives comes from us being motivated and inspired to live on for other things in life and to live for others. Otherwise, if we didn't have any motivation or inspiration, then we would not find any reason to live at all. So we would have to find some way to define motivation and inspiration as only being our pleasant emotions. We would then have to define our acts and expressions without our pleasant emotions as being nothing more than mere acts of atomic processes and not acts of motivation or inspiration.

So going back to my example with how our brains our wired to send emotional signals, then why is it that we need emotions if our thoughts and such alone serve as motivation and demotivation?

Are you thinking the scientific method is not a useful method for proving your hypothesis that the scientific method has no value, no worth and is good for nothing?

 

[Spockrates]

Or are you saying it is a scientific fact that the scientific method is valueless, worthless and good for nothing, and so no further proof is necessary?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am saying it is useful. But that is not the same thing as saying the scientific method has any good value.

 

[Spockrates]

I am saying it is useful. But that is not the same thing as saying the scientific method has any good value.

Understood. Thanks.

Would you say the idea that the scientific method has no good value is:

1. a scientific fact universally accepted by mosts scientists as true? or
2. a scientific theory known by many scientists but not yet universally accepted as a scientific fact? or
3. a scientific hypothesis that deserves serious scientific experimentation to demonstrate it is a scientific theory?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

From what I've read earlier in the past which I thought really was a peer reviewed article stating this as a proven scientific fact, I think it would be #1. But then again, since I can no longer find that peer reviewed article since I didn't keep track of the name of the website and can no longer seem to find it, it could perhaps be #2 or #3.

 

[Spockrates]

From what I've read earlier in the past which I thought really was a peer reviewed article stating this as a proven scientific fact, I think it would be #1. But then again, since I can no longer find that peer reviewed article since I didn't keep track of the name of the website and can no longer seem to find it, it could perhaps be #2 or #3.

Yes, I think (2) or (3). Indeed, I'm of the opinion that many who heard a scientist say, "The scientific method is worthless!" would have trouble believing the one saying such words was a scientist. They might mistake him for a religious fanatic, instead!

The reason might be that most are not as particular or precise about the meanings of some words as you appear to be. Imprecise as it might be, many see the word valuable as a synonym for the word useful. They make no distinction between the words.

To compensate for their lack of preciseness they might use adjectives. For example, such a careless speaker might say to you, "The scientific method has no emotional value, but it does have scientific value." It might be helpful to be aware of such in exact speaking.

Of course, you are free to disagree with them, but I wonder if there really is any significant consensus about the meanings of the words value and usefulness, and whether these meanings are matters of science at all. Well, I suppose the meanings of these words are a matter of the sciences of sociology, anthropology or linguistics.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I don't see the word useful as synonymous with the word value. Rather, useful to me without our pleasant emotions simply means that it serves a purpose. This would be no different than how whatever makes up a bacteria, virus, or a cell is useful (serves a purpose) for it to survive. I would not say that would hold any good value. I am convinced that only our pleasant feelings/emotions are good value.

 

[Spockrates]

Yes, I understand why you believe useful is not a synonym for valuable. You also previously said meaningful is not a synonym of valuable.

What about the words important and beneficial? One might say an apple is important or beneficial as a cause of pleasant sensations. Should we also say important and beneficial are not synonyms of valuable?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

You would be right in saying that those words also cannot hold good value. But if they are words that would be used to define good value, then we would only use those words for our pleasant emotions. We would instead have to come up with different words for other things in life instead.

 

[Spockrates]

You would be right in saying that those words also cannot hold good value. But if they are words that would be used to define good value, then we would only use those words for our pleasant emotions. We would instead have to come up with different words for other things in life instead.

Not sure what you mean by hold value. Do you mean the words useful, important and beneficial cannot be defined as meaning pleasant emotions and so they cannot possibly be synonyms of the word value?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Correct. But if they are somehow synonyms of good value, then those words would only refer to our pleasant feelings/emotions since our pleasant feelings/emotions are good value.

 

[Spockrates]

Correct. But if they are somehow synonyms of good value, then those words would only refer to our pleasant feelings/emotions since our pleasant feelings/emotions are good value.

I think I see, but please let me be sure. Are you saying the words useful, important and beneficial may be correctly defined as a pleasant emotion? Or are you instead saying useful, important and beneficial are not emotions, but are instead adjectives used to describe emotions?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Useful would be when something can be used in such a way that it has good value. So I think just the good value itself extracted from the word "useful" would be our pleasant feeling/emotions while the word useful itself would not be synonymous with the word "good." Useful would now just be a neutral word referring to other things in life serving a purpose and such.

 

[Spockrates]

Useful would be when something can be used in such a way that it has good value. So I think just the good value itself extracted from the word "useful" would be our pleasant feeling/emotions while the word useful itself would not be synonymous with the word "good." Useful would now just be a neutral word referring to other things in life serving a purpose and such.

And just to make sure, we said that good is a synonym for value. So are we still defining the words good and value by saying they are emotions? Or are we now thinking good and value are not emotions, but are instead adjectives describing emotions?

That is to ask: Is good an emotion and value an emotion just as happiness is an emotion? Or are good and valuable merely words that describe the emotion called happiness?

 

[Spockrates]

Let me ask the question a different way...

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

First off, value can be two things: good or bad. Good would refer to our pleasant feelings/emotions while bad would refer to our unpleasant feelings/emotions. I said earlier that if we thought of the word "helium" in our minds, then that thought up word would refer to a scientific element. Same thing for good and bad. Good refers to our pleasant feelings/emotions while bad refers to our unpleasant feelings/emotions. Therefore, I think "good" would actually be our pleasant feelings/emotions themselves while bad would be our unpleasant feelings/emotions themselves.

 

[Spockrates]

...​

 

[Spockrates]

First off, value can be two things: good or bad. Good would refer to our pleasant feelings/emotions while bad would refer to our unpleasant feelings/emotions. I said earlier that if we thought of the word "helium" in our minds, then that thought up word would refer to a scientific element. Same thing for good and bad. Good refers to our pleasant feelings/emotions while bad refers to our unpleasant feelings/emotions. Therefore, I think "good" would actually be our pleasant feelings/emotions themselves while bad would be our unpleasant feelings/emotions themselves.

So just as happiness is an emotion, so too good and valuable are emotions?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

That is correct. Now when you say that something is valuable, what you are saying here is that "whatever has good value." So that would be our pleasant feelings/emotions. Same thing applies for bad value.

 

[Spockrates]

I think whether the word value is an emotion depends on how it is used. For example, if I say,

I value your opinion, Matt.
​

The word value is used as a verb, and might very well be an emotion. At the very least it is an opinion.

But if we use the word value as a noun, as in this article,

What Caused the 1929 Stock Market Crash?

In the years leading up to the stock market crash of 1929, the stock market had gained much popularity as a way of making money. Because stocks prices had been on the rise, they gained the reputation of being a safe way
to invest. Many investors believed stocks were their ticket to riches.

A great number of investors were purchasing stock on the margin, meaning they put 10% of the investment and borrow the remaining 90%. For example, if $10 worth of stock was purchased, the investor put in $1, while the
mortgage broker put in the other $9. It was a good deal as long as stocks were gaining value. However, if the stock lost value, the stockbroker would issue a margin call requiring the investor to pay back the loan. In the example above, not only did the investor lose the $1 he invested, he also had to pay back the $9 he’d borrowed.

The Stock Market Crash of 1929​

should we then come to a different opinion? Tell me, please: Since the words in green say, "stocks were gaining value," does that mean stocks are capable of feeling the pleasant emotion of value? Since the words in red say, "the stock lost value," does that mean a stock at one time feels the emotion of value and at another time loses this good feeling?