My thoughts as of late

[dyanaprajna2011]

So, the last few months I've been going through some sort of existential crisis. I think it's been some sort of mid-life crisis, but I'm not sure.

It started when I began to question whether life had any meaning, particularly objective meaning. I realized that the existentialists were right in that one could give life subjective meaning, but this wasn't good enough; this wasn't what I was looking for. I came to a conclusion- either the world was completely material, and science was the sole arbiter of truth, with logic the only means to gain knowledge, or religion had a place. However, this left me with a paradox-the first option left me with no chance of objective meaning, while the second left me with a rejection, at least in part, of logic. I wasn't happy with either. So I asked myself what the goal of religion was, in a general sense, and the answer to me was transcendence. A transcendence of what? The material world.

While I felt the second option was less depressing, it still left me with questions. Was there a god? How is transcendence gained? The answer to the second question, in my view, starts with morality, which is how we act toward others. This left me in a quandary, as I'm highly cynical, and borderline misanthropic. I have a hard time thinking that the suffering of others, and how I react to that, should somehow be important to me.

So I got stuck again with my choices. I became very depressed, as I felt that religion was only a pipe dream, and lost all hope of finding any objective meaning (which is why I left the forum).

But I couldn't deny all the things I've experienced-supernatural things, spiritual things. I also couldn't help the growing animosity I was feeling toward scientism. Science is great as far as it goes, but I never felt it was the be-all-end-all. Something inside of me was pulling me somewhere, but I wasn't sure where. I did know it was something spiritual. I puzzled over this paradox: either accept physical naturalism, and just keep suffering through a meaningless life, or accept religious transcendence, partly rejecting logic and what I knew to be true, but accept that my apathy toward humankind was going to have to go.

I decided that my cynicism and misanthropy were temporary and based not on any higher truth, but my own displeasure of human immorality. How could I be angry at human immorality while rejecting morality myself? So I found my answer-I would pursue religion. It seemed to me to be better than the alternative, which was causing my depression. But now I faced new problems...

 

[Sleeppy]

Don't try to separate science from religion.

 

[Thief]

and don't let your religion become dogmatic.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

During this crisis of mine, I began coming to terms with the fact that I'm "half-redneck". So when I decided that I was going to pursue religious transcendence, even if I was wrong, I decided to question whether I should keep being Buddhist, or look somewhere else. I knew that any religion I followed would have to be universal, in the sense that it couldn't be tied to any particular culture. This left me with basically two religions to choose from: Buddhism and Christianity. Another criteria I had in choosing a religion would be that it had to have some kind of mysticism. Buddhism, to me, is inherently mystical, and while most modern forms of Christianity tend to reject the mystical, there are still mystical strains within it. So I began to focus on the perennial question: is there a god? Experience was important in my decision, and I've had experiences in both of these religions. I found that I could accept the idea of a divine higher power, but the traditional Christian view of hod didn't sit well with me. I also wasn't impressed by the common conservative form of Christianity that is prevalent around here. However, the mystical strains within Christianity have always viwed god not in the way traditional Christianity does, but what was more in line with my idea. Also, mystical Christianity has always been a bit more progressive, and generally has fought against the more traditional orthodox forms of Christianity. As Christianity is more culturally relevant (as a 'redneck'), I started to think I may end up converting back to Christianity, without actually rejecting Buddhism.

There's actually a bit more involved in my possible decision to once again make Christianity part of my spiritual practice, but I'm not going to go over details here. I'll post questions and some things the way I see them as time goes on in the Christian DIR, before I make my ultimate decision.

So there you have it. That's what's been going on with me these months I've been gone from here. It's been a slow-going process, and I still have a ways to go before I make any permanent decision, but I thought it was the right time to come back, as I can get some of my questions answered here, and have some of my thoughts and ideas critiqued and better fleshed out.

So thanks for your patience. Any grammatical errors are due mostly to the fact that I'm typing all of this on my cell phone, as my computer has died.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Don't try to separate science from religion.

I'm not. But I'm trying to recognize that science and religion have their own realms, and don't necessarily coincide or cross paths, except on rare occasions. However, I also recognize that there should be no animosity between the two.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

and don't let your religion become dogmatic.

Hopefully I can keep that from happening.

 

[Sleeppy]

I'm not. But I'm trying to recognize that science and religion have their own realms, and don't necessarily coincide or cross paths, except on rare occasions. However, I also recognize that there should be no animosity between the two.

Why do they need to represent different realms? -- I'm Christian. But I'm a normal person. I like to think scientifically. I like to think certain actions result in certain reactions. This is also my reason for accepting Christianity- because I believe the authors of the New Testament had experiences which are repeatable, when certain conditions are met. But at the same time, after a few years of thinking I could eventually perform certain miracles, I realized that certain miraculous experiences may not have been as realistic or literal (or simply not repeatable due to certain circumstances), and were not as important as I previously believed. I'm still not certain whether Jesus walked on water, and raised the dead as easily as described, because I don't know every condition that Jesus supposedly met. Scientists make a guess, based on the information available to them, which more often than not is incomplete. For me, science and religion are human tools to understand reality- to further understand ourselves as we move forward.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I think about the relationship between religion and science. I don't deny the importance of either, however.

 

[Orbit]

Orthodox Christianity that is based on the Bible seems like it would stifle someone with mystic tendencies. Why not just meditate and inform your meditation with wisdom from different great faiths? That's essentially what I did after having a crisis like yours, and it's working well.

 

[DawudTalut]

................paradox: either accept physical naturalism, and just keep suffering through a meaningless life, or accept religious transcendence, partly rejecting logic and what I knew to be true, but accept that my apathy toward humankind was going to have to go.

I.........

Peace be on you. True religion is Words of God, Science is work of same God...Be happy, both are good vehicles for you...

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

One issue that I keep running into though, is that I can't seem to escape the idea of fate. It doesn't play into dererministic science, or karma in Buddhism, and while some forms of Christianity accept an idea similar to fate, they're not from schools I accept. I'm not really sure if I believe in fate and accept it, accept it but fight against it, or just imagine that I see it at work. That's something else I'm still trying to work out, and has been a big problem to me.

 

[Orbit]

One issue that I keep running into though, is that I can't seem to escape the idea of fate. It doesn't play into dererministic science, or karma in Buddhism, and while some forms of Christianity accept an idea similar to fate, they're not from schools I accept. I'm not really sure if I believe in fate and accept it, accept it but fight against it, or just imagine that I see it at work. That's something else I'm still trying to work out, and has been a big problem to me.

Ask yourself this: Why do you have a need to believe in fate? It can imply predestination, which is a nasty doctrine. Why not jettison the entire idea of fate, and just live your life as it comes?

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Ask yourself this: Why do you have a need to believe in fate? It can imply predestination, which is a nasty doctrine. Why not jettison the entire idea of fate, and just live your life as it comes?

I wouldn't say I have a need to believe in fate, rather it's something I keep seeing in my own life (whether real or imagined). It seems like I'm stuck where I am: socially, financially, spiritually-regardless of what I do to try to change the situation. I would guess, however, that there's nothing specifically that leads me toward the idea of fate over something like the determinism of Buddhist karma. Maybe it is just me, that I'm not doing enough, or doing enough of the right thing. I'd like to think that I'm doing everything right, everything I can, but maybe this is just pride or ego? It's something I need to investigate further. Because the idea of fate would lead me back to the same problem I had in the first place, and lead me away from pursuing the spiritual path.

 

[Orbit]

I wouldn't say I have a need to believe in fate, rather it's something I keep seeing in my own life (whether real or imagined). It seems like I'm stuck where I am: socially, financially, spiritually-regardless of what I do to try to change the situation. I would guess, however, that there's nothing specifically that leads me toward the idea of fate over something like the determinism of Buddhist karma. Maybe it is just me, that I'm not doing enough, or doing enough of the right thing. I'd like to think that I'm doing everything right, everything I can, but maybe this is just pride or ego? It's something I need to investigate further. Because the idea of fate would lead me back to the same problem I had in the first place, and lead me away from pursuing the spiritual path.

Just give up the idea of fate altogether. Free yourself.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We play a lot into our perceptions to which we ascribe a slew of things to.

I think it's a bit like a tackboard and often it's quite a compulsion to stick ideals to it and develop various scenarios from the menagerie to which it's compared with actuality, and when actuality fails to compare with what is placed there, it likely is the tackboard that is gravitated towards for resolution of the disparity and not actuality. I think it's why people seek meaning and end up discouraged so sometimes another note is placed on the tackboard.

Religion can provide comfort and nothing is inherently wrong if it is just another tackboard note that is placed providing answers and goals but it remains accumulation rather than simply finding meaning in no-meaning as it is.

I suffer many of those things as well and the monkey bites hard and fierce, but its fine as it is imo.

Whatever you do dyanaprajna whither it be Buddhism or Christianity a bit of advice to just let the monkey bite all that a monkey can muster. Also Hell is not so bad after the first time.

Perchance you pursue Christianity, Give Jesus my best regards. We have been companions for a very long time and just wanted to let him know im perfectly fine. ;0)

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Loads of great advice!
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Best of luck on your quest.
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I highly recommend loving-kindness meditation.
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Here's a couple of prayers -
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Prayers - Ananda Life Coaching
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Be kind & gentle & patient with yourself ... and with everyone else.
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Namaste

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

After my last post, I took a walk. I thought about everything bothering me, and came to the conclusion that, if I'm right, then it could very well be that it's myself, my ego, getting in the way. Maybe the reason why it seems like nothing is working, or the need to change, or like I'm stuck in a rut, is because I'm getting in my own way. Maybe it's not fate that I feel like is holding me back, it's myself. Or maybe I'm just trying to find answers where there are none. It's just another question I need to find an answer for. I'm loving the feedback though; it's nice to have like-minded people to bounce ideas off of.

 

[Orbit]

After my last post, I took a walk. I thought about everything bothering me, and came to the conclusion that, if I'm right, then it could very well be that it's myself, my ego, getting in the way. Maybe the reason why it seems like nothing is working, or the need to change, or like I'm stuck in a rut, is because I'm getting in my own way. Maybe it's not fate that I feel like is holding me back, it's myself. Or maybe I'm just trying to find answers where there are none. It's just another question I need to find an answer for. I'm loving the feedback though; it's nice to have like-minded people to bounce ideas off of.

Maybe meditate on it?

 

[Secret Chief]

One thing can't have changed: you think critically.

That's the most important thing. The rest will hang on its coat-tails; even if it's a bumpy ride.

 

[Twilight Hue]

One thing can't have changed: you think critically.

That's the most important thing. The rest will hang on its coat-tails; even if it's a bumpy ride.

I think one of the first insights encountered with swallowing the "red hot ball of iron" that never can be removed or dislodged from your throat. The struggle lies in perfect sync concerning the first Nobel Truth with the ensuing struggle begging the primary question as to who's turning the dharma, or is it the dharma turning you?