My thoughts on the Romney’s Income Tax Returns and other points. Any rebuke

[tytlyf]

No wonder congress' ratings are at an all-time low!

It got worse after the ignorant votes in 2010 by republicans. People were voting on fear as usual. After the election, congress ratings dropped even further. More proof that people were voting wrong.

Today, the Tea Party is a huge ball and chain on the GOP. They can only blame themselves for the mess.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maersk Dubai incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Happens all the time. Less in this part of the world, but still fairly frequently.
Define "martial law".
In a monopoly or monosony situation, a business is quite free to set prices however they want. They don't call it a "tax", but the effect is the same.
And every condominium charges fees that are what I would call something pretty darn close to property tax.
You have me on that one. When businesses are being truly nasty to a person, they tend to go the other way: causing death and pain when the people affected would prefer to live.
My country hasn't been attacked militarily by another country in 200 years. OTOH, it's been attacked by private organizations several times. (by the Fenian Brotherhood and the Babbar Khalsa, in particular).

And I would say that many corporate actions - e.g. the ones of Union Carbide in Bhopal - are just as bad as a military attack. When you're dying from poison gas, the question of whether it was dropped from a plane intentionally or released from a plant due to negligence is rather irrelevant. Either way, your freedom (and your life) is curtailed to the same degree.

Your examples of business wrongdoing are to "the same degree" as governmental oppression?
I've really nothing to say, since we we judge malefaction & scale so very differently.

Some notes:
A governmental tax lein & power of emminent domain trump condo association liens.
Government has the power to dismantle monopolies.
Bhopal deaths: under 20,000 Iraq war: Estimates vary from over 100,000 to over 1,000,000.
America has attacked many others. And it has the power to attack yours. You guys would fall faster than a prom queen's panties.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your examples of business wrongdoing are to "the same degree" as governmental oppression?
I've really nothing to say, other than to note that we judge malefaction & scale very differently.

Take the Maersk Dubai incident: 3 people were killed by order of that captain. What do you think is the average number of people who have died by the order of a captain in a typical navy over the course of that captain's entire career?

 

[Alceste]

Agreed. Now that we have universal health care (or are on the verge of having it), the Republicans vow to dismantle it once they are in office. I think most people (perhaps the majority?) are not necessarily against universal heath care, but they're against it because their party told them it's a bad thing, or that it MUST be a bad thing since Obama pushed it out there.

Many times logic carries no weight in party politics.

You've got a long way to go before Universal Health care. Obama just made some very minor common-sense regulations regarding what private insurance companies can and can not do to increase their profits, then threw them a huge bone by compelling Americans to get private insurance or pay a health care levy, and taking public sector competition off the table.

However, even though the adjustments are very minor, and fall a long way short of a civilized (AKA universal) health care system, it still cost him his majority. I think because over half the Americans who bother to vote are idiots.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think because over half the Americans who bother to vote are idiots.

I agree, based upon 2008.

 

[Copernicus]

Yes, the Republicans are very adept at using filibusters to bog things down. Not the the Demofats don't use it too! No wonder congress' ratings are at an all-time low!

It would be misleading to say that Republicans and Democrats abuse the filibuster power equally, although I don't think you intended to say that. That is not what the historical record shows. The Republicans used it to block Obama's agenda during the brief period when Democrats controlled both houses. We only got the ACA because the Dems managed to eek out a super-majority before the 2010 elections. And a sliver of Democrats were able to control the content of the bill, making sure that it conformed to insurance industry requirements. So there was no "public option", although there are still many good things in the bill. It is unpopular largely because of the way it is so heavily skewed in favor of the insurance companies--forcing Americans to buy their product without having a sound methodology for controlling premium costs. The only good thing I can say about the measure is that Congress will probably be forced to impose restrictions on premiums, if they can't manage to repeal it. And I don't think that they will repeal it. People won't stand for losing the benefits that they currently enjoy from it, even though the plan has not been fully implemented yet.

 

[esmith]

The only problem I see with Universal Health Care or to some extent the ACA is where are you going to get the doctors to attend to everyone. As it stands now many doctors are not taking new Medicare or Medicaid patients. It would appear then that there will be a shortage of doctors willing to treat patients. Unfortunately in the last 10 years American health has declined 69%, 27.5% of Americans are obese, 17.3% of Americans smoke, and 8.7% of Americans have diabetes.
(America's Health Rankings and United Health Foundation
If this trend continues, which it probably will, more and more Americans are going to need to see a doctor and there will be less doctors.

 

[Alceste]

I agree, based upon 2008.

Lol - you would have preferred McCain / Palin?

I rest my case.

 

[Alceste]

The only problem I see with Universal Health Care or to some extent the ACA is where are you going to get the doctors to attend to everyone. As it stands now many doctors are not taking new Medicare or Medicaid patients. It would appear then that there will be a shortage of doctors willing to treat patients. Unfortunately in the last 10 years American health has declined 69%, 27.5% of Americans are obese, 17.3% of Americans smoke, and 8.7% of Americans have diabetes.
(America's Health Rankings and United Health Foundation
If this trend continues, which it probably will, more and more Americans are going to need to see a doctor and there will be less doctors.

Supply and demand still functions in a publicly funded health care system.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's like my saying that Obama possibly cheated in school, & thus wants his scholastic records kept secret.
Obama also possibly:
- Beats his dog.
- Still does drugs.
- Smokes more than he lets on.
- Bullied more children than the one he admitted to.
- Cheats on his taxes.
- Secretly covets Lurline Lumpkin.
He has never publicly denied any of these possibilities.

Again...I'm more into the issues. I really don't know and could care less about his scholastic record. If I did then I'd be concerned with all the politicians. I leave room for the "possibility" Romney cheated on his taxes and has a disclosure issue but to me it's really not all that important. Whether we're talking about tax returns, school records..it's all speculation.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It got worse after the ignorant votes in 2010 by republicans. People were voting on fear as usual. After the election, congress ratings dropped even further. More proof that people were voting wrong.

Today, the Tea Party is a huge ball and chain on the GOP. They can only blame themselves for the mess.

I agree....

 

[esmith]

Supply and demand still functions in a publicly funded health care system.

Not necessarily. If you make it economically unfeasible to pursue a career in a system that does not pay you what you feel you deserve then you will do something else. In doctors cases they will only treat those that pay them directly, not through a government subsidy.

 

[Alceste]

Not necessarily. If you make it economically unfeasible to pursue a career in a system that does not pay you what you feel you deserve then you will do something else. In doctors cases they will only treat those that pay them directly, not through a government subsidy.

I just came back from the doctor's office. Took my 92 year old Grandma in. She can't pee. He's waiting for her test results, then setting up an appointment with a urologist. Last week we went in to see whether her high blood pressure was a problem and he set up an appointment with a otolaryngologist, to check whether an inner ear problem might be causing her to be so wobbly on her feet. Last year she had pneumonia. We went to emergency twice and saw her doctor five times. The year before, she had an operation on her knee, involving a visit to the doctor and three visits to a knee surgeon, all of which happened in the space of a month.

We paid none of these people directly. The government paid all of them. I'm Canadian, and you're wrong.

 

[no-body]

Not necessarily. If you make it economically unfeasible to pursue a career in a system that does not pay you what you feel you deserve then you will do something else. In doctors cases they will only treat those that pay them directly, not through a government subsidy.

What I've heard is the government will help pay for student loans or forgive student loan debts and waive the very high malpractice insurance fees that doctors must pay. It seems like a fair trade to be an intelligent civilized society.

 

[no-body]

Privacy?
Giving ammunition to morons looking for ammunition for specious attacks?

Perhaps Obama's grades are in Willard's tax returns, & he want's to protect the prez?

As the government uses this line of reasoning on private citizens all the time it's sweet to use it on a politician for once.

Being an "almost criminal" by using loop holes and grey areas is what got us into this mess to begin with. The rich shouldn't be able to buy their way out of justice.

And really as it is said Romneys tax plan would result in him paying less than 1% in taxes I can see why he isn't going to release them. I can also see why this isn't a big deal to those who worship the rich and buy that b.s. about being the "job creators" either because they are rich or hope to be rich in the future.

 

[esmith]

I just came back from the doctor's office. Took my 92 year old Grandma in. She can't pee. He's waiting for her test results, then setting up an appointment with a urologist. Last week we went in to see whether her high blood pressure was a problem and he set up an appointment with a otolaryngologist, to check whether an inner ear problem might be causing her to be so wobbly on her feet. Last year she had pneumonia. We went to emergency twice and saw her doctor five times. The year before, she had an operation on her knee, involving a visit to the doctor and three visits to a knee surgeon, all of which happened in the space of a month.

We paid none of these people directly. The government paid all of them. I'm Canadian, and you're wrong.

And your income tax pays for these services, correct? From what I understand 33% of Canadian's do not pay taxes which leaves 67% paying tax at 15% of adjusted income under approx $47,000. In the United States approx the bottom 50% of the population pays approx 2% of the tax. The upper 50% pays approx 97% of the federal tax. It appears that more Canadians pay your Federal Income Tax than US citizens which accounts for more revenue per person coming into the government. Also, I believe that Canadians are far more healthy than US citizens which reduces the number of people seeing a doctor.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I just came back from the doctor's office. Took my 92 year old Grandma in. She can't pee. He's waiting for her test results, then setting up an appointment with a urologist. Last week we went in to see whether her high blood pressure was a problem and he set up an appointment with a otolaryngologist, to check whether an inner ear problem might be causing her to be so wobbly on her feet. Last year she had pneumonia. We went to emergency twice and saw her doctor five times. The year before, she had an operation on her knee, involving a visit to the doctor and three visits to a knee surgeon, all of which happened in the space of a month.

We paid none of these people directly. The government paid all of them. I'm Canadian, and you're wrong.

I love it. I hope one day here in the US we get to that point in our healthcare otherwise I'm giving up my citizenship and moving to Canada.

P.S. Hope your mom gets well....:flower:

 

[Copernicus]

And your income tax pays for these services, correct? From what I understand 33% of Canadian's do not pay taxes which leaves 67% paying tax at 15% of adjusted income under approx $47,000. In the United States approx the bottom 50% of the population pays approx 2% of the tax. The upper 50% pays approx 97% of the federal tax. It appears that more Canadians pay your Federal Income Tax than US citizens which accounts for more revenue per person coming into the government...

You aren't taking into account the regressive payroll tax on income that all Americans must pay. The Social Security and Medicare taxes do not come out of our income tax, which heavily favors investment income. The reason that Romney pays little or no income tax is that all of his income has been declared as investment income, which is taxed at a lower rate. And he has a lot of tax loopholes available to him with that kind of income that are not available with normal income.

...Also, I believe that Canadians are far more healthy than US citizens which reduces the number of people seeing a doctor.

If they are healthier, it is because they get good preventive medical care. When you have a national health care system, preventive medicine is a cost-saver. That is why, under "Obamacare", insurance plans must include free preventive healthcare measures, including annual checkups.

 

[Alceste]

And your income tax pays for these services, correct? From what I understand 33% of Canadian's do not pay taxes which leaves 67% paying tax at 15% of adjusted income under approx $47,000. In the United States approx the bottom 50% of the population pays approx 2% of the tax. The upper 50% pays approx 97% of the federal tax. It appears that more Canadians pay your Federal Income Tax than US citizens which accounts for more revenue per person coming into the government. Also, I believe that Canadians are far more healthy than US citizens which reduces the number of people seeing a doctor.

Holy number crunching, Batman!

Add what you pay in income tax to what you pay for private health insurance. Add to that all your deductibles, co-pays, overshoots of your maximum annual coverage, liability if your policy is canceled when you get sick, yada yada. Call what you pay for private health care a "tax". Then tell me the difference between our nations' tax rates.

The fact that we are more healthy than Americans is a chicken / egg question. Are we more healthy because we can more easily consult a doctor, or are we less likely to need to consult a doctor because we are more healthy? Whichever way you slice it, you're paying way more than we are and getting way worse results. So if somebody needs to reconsider their approach, it probably isn't us.

 

[Alceste]

I love it. I hope one day here in the US we get to that point in our healthcare otherwise I'm giving up my citizenship and moving to Canada.

P.S. Hope your mom gets well....:flower:

Sadly, she (my grandma) won't get any better. She's 92. She's on the home stretch. She's facing nothing but increasingly complicated health problems from here on in, and imminent death. Fortunately for her, there are no obstacles whatsoever to her being able to easily consult a doctor, specialist or surgeon, whatever the cause of her numerous and frequent discomforts, and she will never have to tap into her fixed pension income to cover her health care expenses, apart from prescription medication.