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My Views About Jesus

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
MY VIEWS ABOUT JESUS

For more than several times, I have been asked to post a thread on my views about
Jesus. Well, here then is how I view Jesus: A religious Jew born with the mission to bring his People into a spiritual revival. Jesus' awakening reform is reflected in Matthew 5:17-19.

Jesus' target was to turn the nation into a State governed by Torah as the constitution of the Jewish People. He was too nationalistic though, which rather
being a virtue, would invite misreadings of his personality as we have what happened to Judas.


Although he focused on his private group of 12, he had quite a following. Between the greater multitude and the 12, he had 72 special disciples, whom he would assign certain roles in his Ministry. (Luke 10:1)

I believe his biological parents were indeed Joseph and Mary; and because of a Roman Census in the year 4 BCE, his parents had to go to Bethlehem and Jesus happened to be born. When he was 40 days old, the family returned to Nazareth. He was never in Egypt. The attempt of Matthew to take him there was to plagiarize the call of Israel from Egypt.

When he was 13, his parents brought him up to Jerusalem for his Bar Mitvah, and because he was a very gifted child, really precocious, he would indeed impress priests and Teachers of the Law with his wisdom.

From his age 13 till 30, he must have spent his life between helping his father in his Carpentry and with his cousin John the Baptist in an Essene Monastery in preparation for the Rabbinate.

At that time there were two classifications of Rabbis in Israel. Senior Rabbis who would stay in Yeshivas where students would go to, and Junior Rabbis, who opperated on an ambulant manner: Going from place to place preaching and teaching Torah.

Jesus was never more than a Junior Rabbi, as the title was never granted on widom alone but according to the time spent as such. Jesus didn't have even four years as a Rabbi.

| also believe he was married, because the Law was strict about married Rabbis. One wouldn't even start as a single Rabbi. And I believe he married Marry Magdalene because she was the one he loved and was loved by.

I believe he was crucified because among others like him who were ambulant Rabbis, they irritated the Romans, who had a policy to arrest any head of a subversive private group and put him to the cross, so that the followers would disperse. But I don't believe he died on the cross. He did survive the cross. After
40 days after his crucifixion he left Israel with his wife, Joseph of Arimathea, and probably his mother, and silence was gold for about 30 years.

When Jesus left he made sure his disciples would continue his work of Torah revival.
Then, there was never in the History of Israel a group of more missionary Jews than the Nazarenes. They organized the Sect and started making converts everywhere, even from among the Pharisees.

The Sect became know as the Way. And it grew geometrically, until Paul showed up with a strange gospel about Jesus. Not because Jesus was what Paul preached about him but because he needed him to give rise to his Church of Christianity.

Little by little and until 133 CE, the Nazarenes were absorbed, part into the Church of Paul and part into mainstream Judaism.

These then are my views about Jesus. All the Pauline paraphernalia about Jesus were only sausage fillers. Jesus was Jewish, and anything said about him that contradicts his Faith, which was Judaism, is not true.

Ben:
 

Judgment

Active Member
MY VIEWS ABOUT JESUS

For more than several times, I have been asked to post a thread on my views about
Jesus. Well, here then is how I view Jesus: A religious Jew born with the mission to bring his People into a spiritual revival. Jesus' awakening reform is reflected in Matthew 5:17-19.

Jesus' target was to turn the nation into a State governed by Torah as the constitution of the Jewish People. He was too nationalistic though, which rather
being a virtue, would invite misreadings of his personality as we have what happened to Judas.

Although he focused on his private group of 12, he had quite a following. Between the greater multitude and the 12, he had 72 special disciples, whom he would assign certain roles in his Ministry. (Luke 10:1)

I believe his biological parents were indeed Joseph and Mary; and because of a Roman Census in the year 4 BCE, his parents had to go to Bethlehem and Jesus happened to be born. When he was 40 days old, the family returned to Nazareth. He was never in Egypt. The attempt of Matthew to take him there was to plagiarize the call of Israel from Egypt.

When he was 13, his parents brought him up to Jerusalem for his Bar Mitvah, and because he was a very gifted child, really precocious, he would indeed impress priests and Teachers of the Law with his wisdom.

From his age 13 till 30, he must have spent his life between helping his father in his Carpentry and with his cousin John the Baptist in an Essene Monastery in preparation for the Rabbinate.

At that time there were two classifications of Rabbis in Israel. Senior Rabbis who would stay in Yeshivas where students would go to, and Junior Rabbis, who opperated on an ambulant manner: Going from place to place preaching and teaching Torah.

Jesus was never more than a Junior Rabbi, as the title was never granted on widom alone but according to the time spent as such. Jesus didn't have even four years as a Rabbi.

| also believe he was married, because the Law was strict about married Rabbis. One wouldn't even start as a single Rabbi. And I believe he married Marry Magdalene because she was the one he loved and was loved by.

I believe he was crucified because among others like him who were ambulant Rabbis, they irritated the Romans, who had a policy to arrest any head of a subversive private group and put him to the cross, so that the followers would disperse. But I don't believe he died on the cross. He did survive the cross. After
40 days after his crucifixion he left Israel with his wife, Joseph of Arimathea, and probably his mother, and silence was gold for about 30 years.

When Jesus left he made sure his disciples would continue his work of Torah revival.
Then, there was never in the History of Israel a group of more missionary Jews than the Nazarenes. They organized the Sect and started making converts everywhere, even from among the Pharisees.

The Sect became know as the Way. And it grew geometrically, until Paul showed up with a strange gospel about Jesus. Not because Jesus was what Paul preached about him but because he needed him to give rise to his Church of Christianity.

Little by little and until 133 CE, the Nazarenes were absorbed, part into the Church of Paul and part into mainstream Judaism.

These then are my views about Jesus. All the Pauline paraphernalia about Jesus were only sausage fillers. Jesus was Jewish, and anything said about him that contradicts his Faith, which was Judaism, is not true.

Ben:

Hi Ben - I agree with some of your words. Jesus' faith was Judaism - that faith is what he grew up with and he would be most familiar with. However - it seems you are giving Paul credit for all of the 'new' things Jesus brought to the table.

How are you so sure that all of these 'new' teachings (that would become the NT) are Paul's words? Is this something you were taught - or something you deduced?


My views on Jesus - from the 'God' thread.

Just some thoughts on Our Friend Jesus.....

Me: I believe the majority of the Jewish people are correct – Jesus was not the ‘Savior’ not the ‘Prophet’ they were waiting for – Jesus was not – is not, Yahweh..


THIS IS YAHWEH!!

"I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)"


Jesus Christ… Would utter no such 'nonsense'.. for it would go against all of his teachings. I believe that Jesus was something entirely different – A partial manifestation of God.. that while on this plane of existence had the same frailties that all human beings possess – BUT – 'not' the God in the OT.

If Christians believe that Jesus is the God of the OT – Yahweh – then they must also believe that at one time Jesus thought it OK to brutally kill one another for working the Sabbath or being disrespectful to their parents – I reject this belief outright.. for if this was in fact Jesus.. then he brought no enlightenment.. regardless of what came later.

Me: As most are well aware – Jesus wrote nothing (at least that has been found : ). Jesus is the foundation for Christianity – but – others added what they wanted and may have even misconstrued some of his very words. This book is part of the Truth – but not THE ENTIRE TRUTH.

Of Course, Other men created the religion of 'Christianity' and added whatever information they believed to be beneficial. BUT - the 'religion' was already started as Jesus roamed the land... His Teachings spread about and moved beyond the OT. In fact - Jesus was saying something entirely new - and should have no connection to the OT. The original listeners were the first to hear this 'new religion'... of course it was not called 'Christianity' and all 'of the pieces' of the faith were not in place - but - the religion had it's beginnings with his teachings. In any case - everyone needs to look inside more for the answers and not put 'all' of your trust in the written word - because of those very fallible prophets. In my search I went to the very foundation, the very beginning, the very teachings of the prophet, the very footprints of Jesus Christ - THIS - is the 'true spirit' of the religion... before too many cooks spoiled the broth.

Many would argue that the miracles the NT says he performed mean everything. I would argue that the miracles mean nothing. The words are the true Miracles.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Hi Ben - I agree with some of your words. Jesus' faith was Judaism - that faith is what he grew up with and he would be most familiar with. However - it seems you are giving Paul credit for all of the 'new' things Jesus brought to the table.


Hi Judgment, would you be so kind as to remind me of some of these "new" things you claim Jesus brought to the table? Because what I read in Matthew 5:17-19, he didn't come to abolish anything whatsoever. And Paul contradicts him by saying that he did come to abolish everything in his flesh on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

How are you so sure that all of these 'new' teachings (that would become the NT) are Paul's words? Is this something you were taught - or something you deduced?

From deduction and research on the NT. I believe that the whole of the NT was written by Gentiles, disciples of Paul. None of the writings of the Apostles was not approved into the Canon of the NT in 327 CE by the Fathers of the Church. Hence, I believe Paul is the mentor behind the whole of Christianity.



[/quote]

Ben: :confused:
 

Judgment

Active Member
Ben: Hi Judgment, would you be so kind as to remind me of some of these "new" things you claim Jesus brought to the table? Because what I read in Matthew 5:17-19, he didn't come to abolish anything whatsoever. And Paul contradicts him by saying that he did come to abolish everything in his flesh on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)
Yes, yes. 5:17-19 has been used by some Muslims in previous debate with me to explain that Jesus never wanted to do away with stoning - yet - Jesus did show otherwise with his very actions.

The Law Matthew 5:17-19 wrote about were the 10 commandments - not - every law in the books of the day.

As for contradictions -
Other men created the religion of 'Christianity' and added whatever information they believed to be beneficial. The foundation though - are the teachings of Jesus.

You do not see the 'new' things ? Jesus preached Love, Peace, Forgiveness, Kindness... He preached none of the nonsensical violence and vengeance to be found in the OT. Gods words should transcend human history and human laws - Yahweh's 'overall' words did not.
Ben: From deduction and research on the NT. I believe that the whole of the NT was written by Gentiles, disciples of Paul. None of the writings of the Apostles was not approved into the Canon of the NT in 327 CE by the Fathers of the Church. Hence, I believe Paul is the mentor behind the whole of Christianity.
Do you believe nothing Paul said about Jesus is correct ?
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Yes, yes. 5:17-19 has been used by some Muslims in previous debate with me to explain that Jesus never wanted to do away with stoning - yet - Jesus did show otherwise with his very actions.


Ben: Stoning is not a law or commandment. Stoning is the method used to condemn one to death for preaching apostasy in Israel.

The Law Matthew 5:17-19 wrote about were the 10 commandments - not - every law in the books of the day.

Ben: And you are the one who have decided that? Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew and he knew that the commandments for Jews are not only ten but many more. And when he said down the letter and to the dot of the letter, he meant all the commandments.

As for contradictions -
Other men created the religion of 'Christianity' and added whatever information they believed to be beneficial. The foundation though - are the teachings of Jesus.


Ben: And what did Jesus teach that it's not in the Scriptures that he used to handle?

You do not see the 'new' things ? Jesus preached Love, Peace, Forgiveness, Kindness... He preached none of the nonsensical violence and vengeance to be found in the OT. Gods words should transcend human history and human laws - Yahweh's 'overall' words did not.

Ben: Have you ever read the Tanach? The Prophets? You have never read about Love, Peace, Forgiveness, Kindness... etc?

Do you believe nothing Paul said about Jesus is correct ?

Ben: Perhaps. But you must be more specific, if you want me to get down to details.

Ben: :rainbow1:
 

Judgment

Active Member
Ben: Stoning is not a law or commandment. Stoning is the method used to condemn one to death for preaching apostasy in Israel.
I didn't say stoning was a commandment. Stoning was used as punishments for various 'broken laws'.
Ben: And you are the one who have decided that? Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew and he knew that the commandments for Jews are not only ten but many more. And when he said down the letter and to the dot of the letter, he meant all the commandments.
When asked exactly which Commandments to keep - he skipped the first 4 (which are not needed) and the 10th(same as 8) . He included one from the other 600. Many of the other 600 you speak of were outdated before they were written down. More the work of priests than of an almighty God. When is the last time you held your last animal sacrifice ?

Matthew 19 (Revised Standard Version)
16 Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
17 He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18 He said to him, "Which ones?"
Jesus said, "You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not offer false testimony.

19 Honor your father and mother. And, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Ben: And what did Jesus teach that it's not in the Scriptures that he used to handle?
Shall I continue ?
"His disciples said to him : 'Is circumcision useful or not ?'
He said to them : 'If it were useful, their Father would
beget them already circumcised from their mother.
Rather, the true circumcision in spirit is in all ways useful.'"

Gospel of Thomas, 53.

Ben: Have you ever read the Tanach? The Prophets? You have never read about Love, Peace, Forgiveness, Kindness... etc?
Yes. I have also read about hate, destruction, violence and vengeance. As in the Quran... the good and bad cancel each other out. The message is not clear - the path is cluttered - the light obscured.
Ben: Perhaps. But you must be more specific, if you want me to get down to details.
Ben: Hence, I believe Paul is the mentor behind the whole of Christianity.
Your comment is pretty much all encompassing. Perhaps instead of trying to discredit Jesus.. you should listen to the one that brings the light.
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
Hello Ben, hope you are doing well.......I just wanted to say that I thought stoning was used as a death punishment in other acts that were found to be unlawful...Like acts of adultery and other things that were considered against the law...:confused:
I am glad you posted your view on Jesus, I understand your point of view but I guess we have a few minor points that would be questionable to each other....But still can share cookies...:cookie:
Have a blessed day !
 

3.14

Well-Known Member
might i ask what source's your basing this on?

or is this one of those i had a dream kind a things?
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
might i ask what source's your basing this on?

or is this one of those i had a dream kind a things?

Do you think one would be able to build a body of views about someone out of a dream? I am not too sure what you mean. My sources are based on my knowledge
of the NT plus my self-experienced knowledge of being Jewish. If Jesus was an
Orthodox observant Jew, it's not too hard to figure his identity and role in Judaism.

Ben: :)
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Hello Ben, hope you are doing well.......I just wanted to say that I thought stoning was used as a death punishment in other acts that were found to be unlawful...Like acts of adultery and other things that were considered against the law...:confused:
I am glad you posted your view on Jesus, I understand your point of view but I guess we have a few minor points that would be questionable to each other....But still can share cookies...:cookie:
Have a blessed day !

Thanks my beautiful tiger. For the cookies and the blessed day. The only thing besides wishing you also a blessed day, is my hungry appetite for your tasteful cookies. Do you know something? Today, when I went to the Supermarked, I saw some flesh cookies in the in-house bakery; they remided me so much of you that I went ahead and ordered a few.

Ben: :drool:
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
Thanks my beautiful tiger. For the cookies and the blessed day. The only thing besides wishing you also a blessed day, is my hungry appetite for your tasteful cookies. Do you know something? Today, when I went to the Supermarked, I saw some flesh cookies in the in-house bakery; they remided me so much of you that I went ahead and ordered a few.

Ben: :drool:
Ben, And I always think of you when I see cookies or hear Israel spoken about......Enjoy the cookies love....and another blessed day......;)
Charity :drool:
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
When is the last time you held your last animal sacrifice ?


Ben: Just before it was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70. As you can see, it had nothing to do with Jesus death on the cross. It had all to do with the Temple existence. For another 40 years the sacrifices continued. And they are going to return. You will see.


Yes. I have also read about hate, destruction, violence and vengeance. As in the Quran... the good and bad cancel each other out. The message is not clear - the path is cluttered - the light obscured.

Ben: How about in the History of Christianity? Have you been able to count the acts of violence and cruelty? If it were not for the Church we Jews would not
have lost so many thousands of Jews through so much Christian violence.


Your comment is pretty much all encompassing. Perhaps instead of trying to discredit Jesus.. you should listen to the one that brings the light.

Ben: You are totally mistaken about my purpose in this thread. Rather than to discredit Jesus, I am rather enhancing his credibility. Christians discredit him when they claim for him what he never claimed upon himself. And talking about bringing the light, you should know what he said in his Sermon of the Mount to a
crowd of Jews. He said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) Therefore, he meant to say that light is brought from the People and not specifically from an
individual.

Ben: :)
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben, And I always think of you when I see cookies or hear Israel spoken about......Enjoy the cookies love....and another blessed day......;)
Charity :drool:

Since you are on line, the time is to wish me a good evening and soon a good night.
Right now, it's 6:15 pm. And I do wish you a blessed day from Yerushalaim.

Ben: :drool:
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
Since you are on line, the time is to wish me a good evening and soon a good night.
Right now, it's 6:15 pm. And I do wish you a blessed day from Yerushalaim.

Ben: :drool:
OK sweetie, have a blessed evening and a good night kiss.....:hugkiss:
And blessings for tomorrow.........
Charity :D
 

Judgment

Active Member
Ben: Just before it was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70. As you can see, it had nothing to do with Jesus death on the cross. It had all to do with the Temple existence. For another 40 years the sacrifices continued. And they are going to return. You will see.
I didn't think that it had anything to do with Jesus - just pointing out that many commandments are unnecessary . Animal sacrifice is not needed at any time. What type of a God wishes animals to be sacrificed in his name? For what purpose ? There is no need to see it again.

Ben: How about in the History of Christianity? Have you been able to count the acts of violence and cruelty? If it were not for the Church we Jews would not
have lost so many thousands of Jews through so much Christian violence.
You are thinking of the things done in Christianity's name - not what Jesus taught to actually do. The violence that was done was learned from the old teachings in the Torah - this was because many Christians were unable to separate the two.

Ben: You are totally mistaken about my purpose in this thread. Rather than to discredit Jesus, I am rather enhancing his credibility. Christians discredit him when they claim for him what he never claimed upon himself. And talking about bringing the light, you should know what he said in his Sermon of the Mount to a
crowd of Jews. He said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) Therefore, he meant to say that light is brought from the People and not specifically from an
individual.

Ben: :)
By saying that Jesus brought nothing at all new - you diminish him and you lower him from the exalted few.

Agree - Jesus' words are the most important - nothing else that was claimed about him.

Agree - We are the light of the world - but - sometimes one comes with knowledge and understanding that outshines the multitudes.
 
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