My Vision Quest Tomorrow or the Next Day...

[Zephyr]

Good luck Druidus Tell us all about it. Be careful!

Heh heh....these leaves sound interesting....are they legal??:biglaugh:

It's legal in the USA, but that's all I know. Not bad for being the most powerful natural hallucinagen around. Luckily, my dad likes to experiment with things, so I've had the pleasure of trying it.

Edit: Blast, beaten to it!

 

[kreeden]

I've got an experienced aid/babysitter/helper.
..

THat makes me feel much better Druidus . I still don't think there is a need for it , but the experience alone may be worth it . Best of luck . I waiting to hear about it .

 

[Druidus]

I am slightly dissapointed. I took the proper amount of salvia, and chewed for some time. Eventually, I felt it begin to work. Soon, with my eyes closed, there were many images (2D) that I could see. Shapes and such. I meditated, but nothing happened. It was not the proper time. Waiting is.

 

[Cynic]

I am slightly dissapointed. I took the proper amount of salvia, and chewed for some time. Eventually, I felt it begin to work. Soon, with my eyes closed, there were many images (2D) that I could see. Shapes and such. I meditated, but nothing happened. It was not the proper time. Waiting is.

What were they, just shapes? Maybe you took too little.

 

[Valjean]

"Natural" hallucinogens are notoriously unreliable. While metabolically important elements such as potassium or sodium must be kept within strict levels, the levels of psychoactive alkaloids can vary widely. These alkaloids are not part of the plant's/fungi"s metabolic physiology, they are insecticides and are unconnected to the plant's metabolism. Thus, a dozen samples of a natural drug will have a dozen different levels of the psychoactive substance -- from barely detectable to take-your-head-off.

No doubt I'm going to get in trouble for this, but why don't you try you try something like safe, reliable, high-dose LSD?

 

[painted wolf]

ok at theh risk of sounding rude... I'm only expressing genuine concern here...

plant medicines are to be used ONLY by those trained in using them, True shamans study and learn for years before trying such a stunt... it is not ment for kids (of any age) who read a book and think they know what the hell is going on!
Plants arn't tools to be used casually and discarded, they are powerful spirits and often have a very sencitive attitude tword being misused... Tobbaco=cancer when misused remember. They can and will take your life if they are disrespected!!!

If you want to go on a vision quest and feel you need Drugs of any kind to get one, then you simply arn't ready to go on one!! :149:

Stop trying to be a Mayan shaman and be a frickin' Druid... if you want to do it the "native way" than look into what the Nations around you did to find thier visions... the spirits of the land around you are more receptive to the ways they helped the people find than some 'forign' influence.:tsk:

Plant medicine is an important part of the spirituality of my people. It isn't ment to be plucked out of the religion and used willy-nilly to 'get high' and 'see ****'. It isn't a toy and it isn't a tool!:banghead3

Misuse will have lasting consequences... eaven death.

I certnely don't encourage LSD... its a horrorshow... it never truely leaves your system, it builds up in your brain and spinal fluid and has long lasting detrimental effects... it will haunt you for the rest of your life.

wa:do

 

[Druidus]

What were they, just shapes? Maybe you took too little.

They were just shapes, yes, and other symbols. I didn't want to take too much on the first time; on the advice of my aide. I have been told to increase the dosage next time I try it.

"Natural" hallucinogens are notoriously unreliable. While metabolically important elements such as potassium or sodium must be kept within strict levels, the levels of psychoactive alkaloids can vary widely. These alkaloids are not part of the plant's/fungi"s metabolic physiology, they are insecticides and are unconnected to the plant's metabolism. Thus, a dozen samples of a natural drug will have a dozen different levels of the psychoactive substance -- from barely detectable to take-your-head-off.

I've got 20X extracted salvia, which has been fortified with extra salvinorin A. It is standardized to 1mg of salvinorin A in every 20mg of leaf. It's very potent. I did, however, only take a very small amount last night.

 

[Druidus]

PW, I thank you for your concern. However, it is unfounded.

I was aided by a person experienced in the use of salvia. Druids used plants like salvia, in that they had psychoactive properties; however, most are illegal, and those that are not are impossible to find and/or extremely dangerous.

I will repeat, I am not using the plant to give me the vision, only to help me achieve a state conducive to the vision. I am not taking so much that I will be completely gone from this world. I want to remain conscious of my surroundings; as long as my eyes are open, before receding into trance.

My next Immram will be unaided, in the woods, conducted with meditation, fasting, and isolation.

 

[painted wolf]

and does your 'aid' know the proper ceremonies to use it and appease its spirit?
The right prayers to say, songs to sing... clensings to be done?

or are they simply another user? How much do you realy know about this person? Enough to trust your life and soul to them?

I don't mean to be flippant but my religion is very adement about the consiquences of using such powerful plant medicine... and about theft/misuse of cerremony.
It may not happin right away but it will turn on you.

YOUR FIRST should be unaided, not your next.... you're pushing your mind open by force with drugs not with skill.... it will only lead to pain down the road. You will grow dependant on it to open your mind for you because you won't have the experience nessisary to go without it properly.

It is a natrual product...you have know idea how much or how pure what you are taking is... anyone who tells you otherwise is lying or an illegal dealer pushing something 'unnatural'... you don't know if you will be in this world or lost in your own mind or elcewhere.

the irony of your telling the one Native American spiritualist on this site that my concerns over your use of First Nations medicine is unfounded is astounding.

In the end I know your mind is made up and nothing I say will change it... but better a warning given and ignored than none at all... in the end it is your choise and the responcibility is yours.

wa:do

 

[Druidus]

I am not ignoring your warning. I am merely expressing my belief that the concern is unfounded. In any case, I am done with salvia. I had my chance with it, and was not ready. Waiting is.

 

[kreeden]

Druidus , I hate to say this .... and you know what is coming , but I agree with PW .

This is more then popping a pill . The Mind has to be ready . And when your Mind is ready , you ready don't need the drug . Sorry PW , but the plant may be American , but the use is world-wide . Every culture and religion has used drugs of one form or another for Spiritual enlightment .

Druidus , I have said that you are a very intelligent person . But one can not got about a Vision Quest , or Immram as if it was a science test . Ok , I say that , and I am about to explain it as if it were . As PW says , a Shaman spends years studying , getting to know the Plant , and more time learning the Rituals that go along with the plant . And then , it often takes a year preparing to preform the actual Ritual of using the Plant . Perparing the Plant , etc . All of this helps put the Shaman in the right frame of mind { among other things }. It shows the Shaman's respect for the Plant , and the Ritual . It shows his responsibity towards , and worth of having the Vision . Do you understand ? All of this perpares him for the Vision .

Yes , some would say that he is conditioning his self for the Vision . And that my friend is the kicker . Unless one is perpared , conditioned , they wouldn't " see " the Vision if it hit them between the eyes . And that goes if you are using a Plant , or not .

And no , that doesn't mean that it is all in our imagination . What it means is that your social conditioning has taught you to explain such things away . And that social conditioning is what you are having problems with .

 

[painted wolf]

heh.. I know use is world wide... but perhaps he should use a Druid plant, one that he will be able to 'connect' with better than one expecting a certen treatment by a Mayan Shaman.
Spirits often expect to be approached in a certen respectfull way in my experience. If you don't know that way its better not to play with them. You certenly shouldn't apporach it as if it were just a 'drug' or a tool.

I definatly agree that true visions aren't produced by popping a pill or smoking a joint. My most powerful one (thus far)came from just sitting next to a fire and letting it speak to me.

wa:do

 

[kreeden]

I agree PW . There are many plants here in Canada that could be used , if that is one's Path . There should be a connection to the Spirits of the Land , I think . Not that a foreign plant couldn't work , I suppose ? Just that a native plant would relate better , IMHO . Kinda like offering Polar Bear a coconut ...