Mythical Christ

[dogsgod]

In light of a certain tomb that has been brought to our attention by way of a documentary and book launching, it is noteworthy that there is no known evidence of any knowledge of a Jesus tomb, empty or otherwise, prior to the writing of the first Gospel approx. year 70. This in and of itself does not prove a mythical Christ, but the accumulation of the many discrepancies the Gospels provide along with the historical record, or lack thereof, it is becoming worthy of consideration.

Paul, who died before the Gospels were written, gives no details of an historical Jesus and much of what he and other Epistle writers do say only makes sense if Christ is thought of as a spiritual entity.

The idea of a mythical Christ is met with resistance by those that insist the Gospels can be read as an historical account, in spite of the historical record.

Personally, the mythicist argument makes a lot of sense, and even though a spiritual Christ was no problem for Philo or Paul, it's apparent that it is a problem for Christians in general.

Any thoughts?

 

[dogsgod]

Actually, Philo never mentions a Christ, but he does describe a Son of God, and is known for laying down the theological groundwork for Christianity.

 

[Bick]

In light of a certain tomb that has been brought to our attention by way of a documentary and book launching, it is noteworthy that there is no known evidence of any knowledge of a Jesus tomb, empty or otherwise, prior to the writing of the first Gospel approx. year 70. This in and of itself does not prove a mythical Christ, but the accumulation of the many discrepancies the Gospels provide along with the historical record, or lack thereof, it is becoming worthy of consideration.

Paul, who died before the Gospels were written, gives no details of an historical Jesus and much of what he and other Epistle writers do say only makes sense if Christ is thought of as a spiritual entity.

The idea of a mythical Christ is met with resistance by those that insist the Gospels can be read as an historical account, in spite of the historical record.

Personally, the mythicist argument makes a lot of sense, and even though a spiritual Christ was no problem for Philo or Paul, it's apparent that it is a problem for Christians in general.

Any thoughts?

Hi dogsgod. IMO, God has seen to it that Jesus' tomb is not known; for humans being what they are, would be worshipping the stones, the dirt or what have you. Just like there is no "holy grail" or His "robe" that might have "special powers" in the minds of some.
Salvation is by faith alone, not along with some relic.

You seem to imply that because there is no secular record of His tomb, you doubt the actuality of His death, burial and resurrection.

As to the dates of the writing of the New Testament, I suggest you do more research.
There is much critical reasoning based on historical records that they were written before 70 A.D., probably by 62 A.D. For one such reference go to http://www.bethinking.org/resource.php?ID=233.

As to the "many discrepancies" in the Gospels, rather than maybe quoting some one else, please list out these "discrepancies" you have found and we can discuss them.

When you say 'Paul died before the Gospels were written', please list the proof that this is true. One source, Wikipedia, lists his death at c. 67.

As to Paul not giving any details of an historical Jesus, he wasn't inspired to do that.

more later, must go, Bick

 

[Devin87]

Sorry for being so brief especially in a post of this nature. There is actually a few historical documents that point to Jesus being the Christ. I don't know them off hand, but I will look for them later seeing as the bell rings in a minute. I can't remember what document it is, but there is one that refers to James the brother of Jesus, who is called the Christ. I have to go but I will try to find which ones they are.

 

[Mister Emu]

Paul, who died before the Gospels were written

Given the texts, I believe it is illogical to assume that Paul died before the writing of Luke at least.

what he and other Epistle writers do say only makes sense if Christ is thought of as a spiritual entity.

Such as?

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

1Cor 1:13 ...was Paul crucified for you?...(No, Jesus was)

1Cor 15:12-17 talks about if Jesus wasn't ressurected from the dead, then the faith is in vain, to ressurect from the dead, you have to... die, to die... you have to be there.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I can't remember what document it is, but there is one that refers to James the brother of Jesus, who is called the Christ. I have to go but I will try to find which ones they are.

Josephus - Antiquities 20.9.1.

 

[TruthInCatholocism]

The Historical Jesus did Exist O_O

Josephus rIng a bell?
Perhaps.....
Tacitus
letters of Pliny
Babylonian Talmud
Lucian of Samosata

TO refer to a few

 

[dogsgod]

the second part of the extant phrase is suspiciously identical to the one which concludes Matthew 1:16 (ho legomenos Christos: the one called (the) Christ, though the Josephan phrase is in an oblique case: tou legomenou Christou). The same phrase also appears in John 4:25.
jesuspuzzle.com

 

[TruthInCatholocism]

Your Point? The Only Text Question By Leading Scholars is Josephus.. and only because it appears later in the texts

Other then that Scholars do not deny the true existance Of the historical Jesus (most dont anyway) epecially considering the Bible alone is not only a religious Guide but as well a great Historical Book.....

 

[dogsgod]

Your Point? The Only Text Question By Leading Scholars is Josephus.. and only because it appears later in the texts

Other then that Scholars do not deny the true existance Of the historical Jesus (most dont anyway) epecially considering the Bible alone is not only a religious Guide but as well a great Historical Book.....

I'm not aware of any historical events recorded within The Bible. As far as I know it's all mythology with the exception of the epistles which are letters.

 

[TruthInCatholocism]

O_O Scholars View the Bible As Historical Writings.. How can you not? O_O

 

[logician]

There is no comtemporay historian of the supposed Jesus that ever heard of such a man. The gospels themselves are conflicting, fairytalish accounts of the life of a supposed Christ that borrowed heavily from pre-existant mythology. The liklihood that a man existed even remotely resembling the Jesus of the Bible is quite small.

 

[Comet]

dogsgod, if you are interested in the mythical understanding of Christ:

Jesus And The Lost Goddess by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
The Jesus Mysteries by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
The Christ Conspiracy by Archarya S
The Mythmaker by Hyam Maccoby

I have more books about that subject, as well as the ancient mystery cults like that of Mithras. That is a good place to start if you are curious about the mythical interpretation of Jesus. Best of luck trying to convince others if that is what you seek to do

 

[dogsgod]

Comet, thanks for the info, and yeah, the luck will only go so far.lol

 

[TruthInCatholocism]

O_O Most contempary scholars believe in the historical Jesus... Just Not The Supernatural Jesus....

using a very detailed method most scholars agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher who attracted a small following of Galileans and, after a period of ministry, was crucified by the Romans in during the governorship of Pontious Pilate.

Infact according to Mr. Luke Johnson, a scholar at Emory University,

"Even the most critical historian can confidently assert that a Jew named Jesus worked as a teacher and wonder-worker in Palestine during the reign of Tiberius, was executed by crucifixion under the prefect Pontius Pilate and continued to have followers after his death."​

Real Scholars have been researching the Historical Jesus For a long time.... (do you research or read at all? May help )

Many archeologists have already demonstrated some ligitamcy of the Bible O_O
so you wont question that right?

He’s referred to in pagan, Jewish, and Christian writings outside the New Testament.

 

[dogsgod]

O_O Most contempary scholars believe in the historical Jesus... Just Not The Supernatural Jesus....

I suppose the criteria used can be applied to Harry Potter as well, and if not, why not?

using a very detailed method most scholars agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher who attracted a small following of Galileans and, after a period of ministry, was crucified by the Romans in during the governorship of Pontious Pilate.

I've read the Gospels too, the difference is, I don't buy it.

Infact according to Mr. Luke Johnson, a scholar at Emory University,

"Even the most critical historian can confidently assert that a Jew named Jesus worked as a teacher and wonder-worker in Palestine during the reign of Tiberius, was executed by crucifixion under the prefect Pontius Pilate and continued to have followers after his death."​

Real Scholars have been researching the Historical Jesus For a long time.... (do you research or read at all? May help )

Do you know of any real scholars, or just Christian scholars?

Many archeologists have already demonstrated some ligitamcy of the Bible O_O
so you wont question that right?

Noah's Ark? The parting of the seas? Talking snakes?

He’s referred to in pagan, Jewish, and Christian writings outside the New Testament.

Just not by a contemporary, however that's not a biggie for believers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you know of any real scholars, or just Christian scholars?

Interesting ad hominem. How is excluding all Christians from the category of "scholar" other than the most ignorant bigotry?

 

[TruthInCatholocism]

A scholar is a schoalar Despite there Religion O_O

B. Jewish Scholars Geza Vermes , David Flusser

 

[Halcyon]

"Even the most critical historian can confidently assert that a Jew named Jesus worked as a teacher and wonder-worker in Palestine during the reign of Tiberius, was executed by crucifixion under the prefect Pontius Pilate and continued to have followers after his death."

Well, Joshua anyway...

 

[TruthInCatholocism]

Most Critical Contempary Scholar.. O_O