Myths About the United States

[texan1]

Tee hee. Beck is never wrong... except when he is.

(By the way, in January of 2008, Beck harshly criticized the US health care system after suffering a botched surgery.)

Yes! Pretty funny:
Video: Glenn Beck's Operation | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

 

[Mr Spinkles]

But on the other hand, Sunstone, you have to admit, we get great customer service. In the European countries I have visited, if I was incredibly rude to the cashier or waiter, I got bad service. The nerve of them! That would never happen here in Ah-MUR-icah!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

1. The 9/11 plane Flight 93 wasn't magically evaporated, it just hit the ground so hard it broke the space/time continuum and went through the surface coming out in another existence. To date, not a single piece of the plane has EVER been recovered, it was magic I tell you!

Are you sure about that last one?

United Airlines Flight 93 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunstone]

But on the other hand, Sunstone, you have to admit, we get great customer service. In the European countries I have visited, if I was incredibly rude to the cashier or waiter, I got bad service. The nerve of them! That would never happen here in Ah-MUR-icah!

Yup! And that's why we're still Number 1 -- our excellent, polite customer service and our nukes.

 

[Nepenthe]

Yes, but we still build the best nukes.

And don't you forget it Pinko!

The OP is spot on; I'm particularly frustrated by the health care crisis and "no vacation" status in comparison to Europe. But my concern is that Europeans think themselves immune from the excesses of capitalism when there are most definitely parallels 'tween American and European politics, media, and economics.

U.K. media often makes Fox news look like it's mistress (not to mention the Czech media which is a watershed in right wing propoganda and sensationalism). Europe's far right is growing due to xenophobia- no, lets call it what is is, racism. The EU is seen as an imposition on many moderates tilting them to the right. Just a handful of the Euro-right like: Belgiums Frank Vanhecke; France's National Front, though a minority, they have an inordinately large influence; Italy's Northern League and National Alliance; Switzerland's Christoph Blocher; and my favorite, Nick Griffin.


Granted, most of these politicos are small if not fringe representatives, but their influence is wider than their numbers. Most are bolstered by their anti-immigration policies, but they're also united by a desire to deregulate and expand laissez-faire economics in the EU.


Yes, there's no comparison to the last 8 years of Bush's regime. The U.S. as the current world power bullied and forced itself into spreading oppression and war with the dollar in mind. My fear is that Europeans will look at the U.S. and shrug in apathy when their right-leaning leaders start to become a majority. The similarities are far more compelling and disturbing than the differences.

 

[Tiapan]

I think we are seeing a typical clash of the titans. I look at societies, religions, and multinational companies, ie biological co-operative societies, as advanced life forms. When you apply darwinism to them they become a lot easier to understand. These super organisms are fighting over resources, and quite a few humans are getting hurt. When the Iron Curtain fell, a couple of things occurred some rather ironic. The first thing is the balance was lost, without the USSR as an imminant threat The US gloated in its glory. Its progeny, corporate america had "proved its righteousness", so the reins were dropped. Since a companies only objective is to give a return to share holders, using money the new blood, the relaxed legal frame work allowed a human motivation "greed" to run rampant, eventually dropping the giant of capitalism like a sack of potatoes.

The high salaries paid to corporate managers is a reflection of the cogs we each represent in these corporate machines. The nation has laws but they are bound by geographic boundaries, a corporate is not so bound. Corporatisation of health and medical is dangerous.

Afterall is it not the prime responsibility of the Government to guarantee a level of health, education, security and shelter for all its citizens, if not why have a government, instead why not subcontract out the government administration to cheaper private contractors (eg a chinese company).

Why because the shareholders of a nation are it citizens, who must be involved in its running, this is why we do not do the corporate thing in government, thats why we vote and have a democracy (Motivated by corporate lobbyists).

If we follow the purely capitalist supply vs demand model, then no bailouts should have occured. Banks would fall like a stack of cards, Massive unemployment, millions would loose their homes, the economy would have been dragged to a standstill, and you would be suseptible to foriegn investment/ownership/take over during the fire sale. However, once the dust settled the assets redistributed and the risk re-established, the re-evolved neocapitalist system would have emerged stronger, having adjusted to reduce the probability of reoccurence, infused with cheap redistribution of assets, possibly reducing the human input through introduction of intelligent non human corporate decision makers. This would have been the best out come for the Corporate organisms as the stronger is forced to devoured the incompetent but the nation is worse off. But this is what did not occur.

The National organism fought back to meet its duty of care to its citizens. By doing the bailout the the human impact has been reduced significantly. It shows the difference between a nations duty of care and a corporate duty of care, and here they were in conflict. I think it is now fairly obvious that we have two political extremes, socialism and capitalism with each equally flawed, and that the best system is in that gray area between. The pendulum had swung way too far to the right and is now in the process of a correction to the left. From an outsiders point of view a nation such as rich as the US not having a workable medical safety net seems so incredibly stupid and negligent of a Government.

Fortunately for us the US is no longer the only industrial block on the planet, continuing markets of China, India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan have cushioned the effect here. I'm not saying Australia is perfect but this nation seems to be weathering the financial storm far better than the US or Europe. Perhaps we have some systems in place that have protected us, that others could learn from. A lot of that is due to the fact we are a low population resource rich country and have benefited as a supplier to the giant wheels of industry in China, India and Asia. However our health system has a safety net for the poor, but we also have health insurance for those who can afford it. We have a minimum wage and public holidays, compulsory employer contribution superannuation and we get on pretty well with most people.

Hopefully in the US post recession period, which I think will come sooner than later, we will have learnt from the mistakes of the past and return to a more stable outcome closer to the political center.

Most systems are flawed, its a matter of picking the least flawed.


Cheers

 

[Sunstone]

I notice there's not a lot of people arguing against the notion the US has slipped behind in the world.

 

[Madhuri]

I notice there's not a lot of people arguing against the notion the US has slipped behind in the world.

Thats because America IS slipping behind...and China is sneakily rising up.

 

[T-Dawg]

I notice there's not a lot of people arguing against the notion the US has slipped behind in the world.

The only people who actually like America are the capitalists (who use religion only as a tool to control people, and therefore are not interested in a religious forum), and their sheep (who blindly follow what the capitalists tell them and therefore are not interested in discussing religion outside of their bubble).

Thats because America IS slipping behind...and China is sneakily rising up.

Sneakily? It seems pretty obvious to me =P.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I bet our local conservatives are strangely silent about all this....

No, you will recieve no argument from me about the United States going to hell in a hand basket. We have shot ourselves in the foot. We are no longer an industrialised nation, (thanks to NAFTA and other trade agreements).

We have enjoyed the good life and have raised several generations of citizens who feel entitled to spend other folks money.

The Republican party has lost it's way and prostituted their principles. They are no better and often times even worse than Democrats. Both parties have no clue how to manage money and borrow like drunken sailors, (no offense to drunken sailors).

We Americans have forgot the value of a dollar and have lost our work ethic. We are fat, dumb and lazy for the most part. Delayed satisfaction is a thing of the past and saving your money for something is unheard of any more.

Our morals have decayed while we allow our children to lie out of any confrontation where they might have to take responsibility for their own actions. Integrity is a thing of the past. This is not the exception, but the norm.

We still have people who go to college, but the acceptable standards of performance is seriously lacking any more. Most young adults with a brand new degree don't have a clue how to be productive members of society and secure gainful employment.

Most young Americans resent authority and for the most part are unreliable and lazy.

It amazes me how so many immigrants come to America, work hard, save and become sucessful business owners. Many speak little English. I see them raise respectful intelligent children who assimilate easily into this country. Their honest hardworking attitudes take them far.

The United States does not suck, Most Americans do!

 

[blackout]

*still laughing over the zoom lense shot*

Give me a nice clear wide angle baby!
I wanna see a full fledged crash site disaster!

OH GAWD! NEVER MIND! I REALLY DON'T CARE!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We Americans have forgot the value of a dollar and have lost our work ethic.

It's not that all have lost work ethic, it's just when we see what other nations have, higher wages, shorter work weeks, better benefits, mandatory paid time off, mandatory paid sick days, and some that even take longer breaks and rest periods, why should we break our backs for a corporate overlord when we work even harder than other nations, but are rewarded far less?

Most young Americans resent authority and for the most part are unreliable and lazy.

What is wrong with resenting authority. Alot of good has come about because someone resented authority. Susan B. Anthony and Rosa Parks are just two names that come to mind that accomplished alot just because they said screw authority.
And I wouldn't even say most young people are lazy and unreliable. A good number of them, yes, but when you take another look, you will find plenty of hard working young people, straight A students, and such. It's just we tend to notice things that are out of place.

The United States does not suck, Most Americans do!

Well, you can't say the land sucks. We have several different types of environments to suit just about everyone from coastal lines, forests, deserts, mountains, and so on. But yes, the American policies do indeed suck. The corporate bigshots horde profits which amounts to more than they can ever use, and rather than give the bulk of the profits back to the workers, who are the most valuable asset to a company, they just horde the cash. Even though if it wasn't for us workers, they wouldn't even have the cash flow comming in that they do. It's not that I feel entitled to spend someone else's money, it's just that I (and many others) feel we deserve a bigger cut of profits.

 

[Kathryn]

As a political independent, socially libertarian and fiscally conservative Christian, I would say that the US is wallowing in mediocrity - right alongside the EU and the rest of post-modern Western civilization.

Capitalism that is not balanced by a compassionate value system is truly a bleak system - and doomed to failure. Democracy means that eventually a country will be run into the ground by the masses - because we will eventually be reduced to the lowest common denominator (and if you have any doubt about what THAT consists of, just go to the county fair and take a look around you). A people who do not share a similar value system or work ethic will not be able to work together in the long run, in my opinion.

Likewise, a state-imposed value system is just as bleak and empty of promise as a capitalist system when it denies the rights of it's citizens to achieve greatly or fail greatly.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul. But you also better be concerned about Peter - because he's the one with the gumption to round up other Peters and kick your ***.

I grieve for our nation - Like Europe, we have passed our prime, and are on the downward slope.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It's not that all have lost work ethic, it's just when we see what other nations have, higher wages, shorter work weeks, better benefits, mandatory paid time off, mandatory paid sick days, and some that even take longer breaks and rest periods, why should we break our backs for a corporate overlord when we work even harder than other nations, but are rewarded far less?

OK, now notice I never said everyone. I am going to explain this to you and be very truthful. Wages are not for living well, they are for survival only. It is not how much you make but how much you save and invest. Your never going to be happy working for someone else. If you want to get ahead and enjoy some time off, you will have to figure out how to become self employed. Wages are nothing but seed money. You have to plant your crop to reap any success. You see the system makes you work to make others rich. Everyone has to start at this point. Later on, you reap the benefits and someone else starts out. If you pay attention, you can get more than just a paycheck from an employer. You can learn something that will benefit you later on in life.

What is wrong with resenting authority. Alot of good has come about because someone resented authority. Susan B. Anthony and Rosa Parks are just two names that come to mind that accomplished alot just because they said screw authority.
And I wouldn't even say most young people are lazy and unreliable. A good number of them, yes, but when you take another look, you will find plenty of hard working young people, straight A students, and such. It's just we tend to notice things that are out of place.

I have a feeling you are one of the exceptions

Well, you can't say the land sucks. We have several different types of environments to suit just about everyone from coastal lines, forests, deserts, mountains, and so on. But yes, the American policies do indeed suck. The corporate big-shots horde profits which amounts to more than they can ever use, and rather than give the bulk of the profits back to the workers, who are the most valuable asset to a company, they just horde the cash. Even though if it wasn't for us workers, they wouldn't even have the cash flow coming in that they do. It's not that I feel entitled to spend someone else's money, it's just that I (and many others) feel we deserve a bigger cut of profits.

People are not as rich as they once was. The economy has hurt many of the fat cats too.

 

[Dunemeister]

OK, now notice I never said everyone. I am going to explain this to you and be very truthful. Wages are not for living well, they are for survival only. It is not how much you make but how much you save and invest. Your never going to be happy working for someone else. If you want to get ahead and enjoy some time off, you will have to figure out how to become self employed. Wages are nothing but seed money. You have to plant your crop to reap any success. You see the system makes you work to make others rich. Everyone has to start at this point. Later on, you reap the benefits and someone else starts out. If you pay attention, you can get more than just a paycheck from an employer. You can learn something that will benefit you later on in life. I have a feeling you are one of the exceptions

Oh, if only it was so simple....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Capitalism that is not balanced by a compassionate value system is truly a bleak system - and doomed to failure. Democracy means that eventually a country will be run into the ground by the masses - because we will eventually be reduced to the lowest common denominator (and if you have any doubt about what THAT consists of, just go to the county fair and take a look around you). A people who do not share a similar value system or work ethic will not be able to work together in the long run, in my opinion.

What I honestly feel we need a healthy blending of Capitalism and socialism. Enough Capitalism to drive the market, and enough socialism that the working class is taken care of.

If you want to get ahead and enjoy some time off, you will have to figure out how to become self employed.

I've tried a few things, but it's difficult. I tried the Ebay business thing, and ended up loosing alot of money. I tried to put a crew together to clean out houses and get them ready to be put on the market, and couldn't get a truck (which is a necessity for that business.). I've even went as far to try the online selling thing, which you can actually make money with, but again, it's very difficult.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What I honestly feel we need a healthy blending of Capitalism and socialism. Enough Capitalism to drive the market, and enough socialism that the working class is taken care of.


I've tried a few things, but it's difficult. I tried the Ebay business thing, and ended up loosing alot of money. I tried to put a crew together to clean out houses and get them ready to be put on the market, and couldn't get a truck (which is a necessity for that business.). I've even went as far to try the online selling thing, which you can actually make money with, but again, it's very difficult.

It is hard to find a nitch. If you stop looking for it, you will not see it when it arrives. I can tell you are a very special person. I have no doubt you will succeed.

It took me a very long time to get my act together, but I never gave up on the dream. If you give up your dreams, you die inside.

 

[tomspug]

To some extent, you can put it that way, Tom. But I would rather put it, my experience contradicts your experience, and your experience contradicts mine.

Heh, well obviously my experience is better.

Seriously though. I don't want conservatives to be selfish and only care about their own needs, and I'm not sure if that's what's going on at these town-halls.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is hard to find a nitch. If you stop looking for it, you will not see it when it arrives. I can tell you are a very special person. I have no doubt you will succeed.

I'm not giving up yet, just putting it on hold until after I graduate.

 

[AmyintheBibleBelt]

Written by Mark Weisbrot and reprinted from the Guardian Unlimited:

The Great Recession is allowing some widely held beliefs about the U.S. economy - which were the source of much evangelism over the last few decades - to run up against a reality check. This is to be expected, since the United States has been the epicenter of the storm of policy blunders that caused the world recession. This month my CEPR colleagues John Schmitt and Nathan Lane showed that the United States is not the nation of small businesses that it is regularly dressed up to be for electoral campaign speeches and editorials. If we look at what percentage of our overall labor force is self-employed, or what percentage of manufacturing workers or high-tech workers are employed in small businesses - well, the U.S. ranks at or near the bottom among high-income countries.

As economist Paul Krugman noted after reading the study, "one more American myth bites the dust." Indeed it has. And as both the authors of the paper and Krugman note, there is a plausible explanation for the United States' low score in the small business contest: our lack of national health insurance. There are enough risks associated with choosing to start a business over being an employee, but the Europeans don't have to worry that they will go bankrupt for lack of health insurance.

A number of other alleged advantages of America's "economic dynamism" are also mythical. Most people think that there is more economic mobility in America than in Europe. Guess again: we're also near the bottom of rich countries in this category, for example as measured by the percentage of low-income households that escape from this status each year. The idea that the United States is more "internationally competitive" has been without economic foundation for decades, as measured by the most obvious indicator: our trade deficit, which peaked at 6 percent of GDP in 2006. (It has fallen sharply from its peak during this recession but will rebound strongly when the economy recovers). And of course the idea that our less regulated, more "market-friendly," financial system was more innovative and efficient - widely held by our leading experts and policy-makers such as Alan Greenspan, until recently - collapsed along with our $8 trillion housing bubble.

On the other hand, most Americans pay a high price for the institutional arrangements that bring us these mythical successes. We have the dubious honor of being the only "no-vacation nation," i.e. no legally required paid time off and of course some weeks fewer actual days off per year than our European counterparts enjoy. We have a broken health care system that costs about twice as much per capita as that of our peer nations and delivers worse outcomes, as measured by life expectancy or infant mortality. We are near the top in terms of inequality among high-income countries; and at the bottom for parental leave policies and paid sick days. The list is a long one.


Rest of the article at the Guardian.

I bet our local conservatives are strangely silent about all this....

Bring Clinton back. Gas was less than a buck and the average working person coukd get affordable healthcare.