Myths in the Judeo-Christian scripture.

[Polymath257]

Odd that religious predictions are never this clear and precise, isn't it?

And it isn't like this is a singular prediction. It is possible to know centuries ahead of time where Jupiter will appear in our sky.

Much, much more detailed and accurate that 'this city will be conquered'. Wow. That's news.

 

[Ted Evans]

That's a classic right-wing piece

That is a classic liberal disregard for facts and the propensity to say whatever sounds good to them. I am a little surprised that the Russians had nothing to do with the piece.



Jewish World Review

When did this site become part of the "right-wing"?

 

[Ted Evans]

That would be an example of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It came to pass due to the action of people familiar with the prediction

Well that makes perfectly good sense, they were forced out of their homeland, spent almost 2k years scattered throughout the world, hated by many if not most countries, a number of countries with populations that outnumber them by tens of millions that want to destroy them and Hilter tried his best to do just that and after all that time, they came back to their homeland still spiking their original language. In addition, it was nothing short of a miracle they survived the Arab attack when they had few weapons and no help from the British or the Americans.

You are correct, it was a given that they would come back to their homeland, I wonder why they waited so long.

 

[Ted Evans]

Could you name a single ancient city of importance

Can you name a single one of those ancient cities that it was foretold centuries in advance who and how they would be conquered by? Nevermind, I know the answer, it was all written after the fact about 1600 or so, right?

 

[Ted Evans]

By the standard that was set in the OP, the Quran also counts because of what is written in 17:104 (depending on translation)

How many prophecies in the Quran, how many of them were fulfilled exactly as they were foretold, how many of them can be verified with secular history, when was the Quran written?

 

[David1967]

3nd

How do you say 3nd?

 

[Ted Evans]

Also true prophecies from other traditions

OK, how many prophecies, how many written centuries before, how many were fulfilled exactly as they were foretold, how many can be verified by secular history?

 

[Nakosis]

Odd that religious predictions are never this clear and precise, isn't it?

Scientists are new age prophets. With a much higher degree of accuracy than what came before.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

If time travel to the past is ever achieved,
Then the source of all prophecies could be humanoid.
So, when making statements about prophecies in holy books,
One has to rule out time travel.

Don't you think that if a human could send a message back to the past, that it would be much more specific than biblical prophecy? If you saw the movie Frequency, you might recall that it involves a son able to transmit communications into his past to his father (played by Dennis Quaid) through a ham radio. To convince his father, who is back in 1969 during the World Series eventually won by the miracle Mets, that he is living and transmitting from his fathers future (1998), the son tells his father the outcome of game five before it is played:

"Well, game five was the big one. It turned in the bottom of the 6th. We were down 3-0. Cleon Jones gets hit on the foot - left a scuff mark on the ball. Clendenon comes up. The count goes to 2 and 2. High fastball. He nailed it. Weis slammed a solo shot in the 7th to tie. Jones and Swoboda scored in the 8th. We won, Pop."

That's how you convince somebody that you have special knowledge, and also the kind of specificity that is never found in biblical prophecy. Curiously enough, however, it typifies scientific prophecy, which is also highly specific and makes predictions that are not obvious and would not have been guessed.

As you probably are well aware, this is what is meant by high quality prophecy, not the vague, nonspecific prophecies of the Bible that are not necessarily before the fact, might be self-fulfilling prophecies, or predict what is common or expected such as members of a religious group being shunning or future wars and earthquakes. The Mets prophecy was unmistakably something out of the ordinary and good enough to convince anybody watching the game live after the prophecy once you rule out a delay in the broadcast.

 

[Nakosis]

"Nearly 150 years before Cyrus was born, the prophet Isaiah foretold his birth, his name, and the tasks that the Creator God had predetermined for him to accomplish. The Bible records that certain people are foreordained to be born and carry out specific tasks for God during their lifetime and a few of these individuals are even named before their birth. Cyrus the Great was one of these individuals whom God had predestined to play a pivotal roll in his awesome plan for humanity."

"Cyrus was the grandson of Astyages, King of the Medes. He was born in the province of Persis, in southwest Iran in 590 BC and died in battle in 530 B.C.. He founded the Archaemenian dynasty and the Persian Empire. He overthrew three great empires: the Medes, Lydians, and Babylonians. He also united most of the ancient Middle East into a single state stretching from India to the Mediterranean Sea, which meant that he possessed the largest empire in the world at that time."

You can read all about it in Isaiah, Ezra and Daniel written about the seventh-sixth century BC and in secular history

The terms used by the author of Deutero-Isaiah are reminiscent of certain passages in the Cyrus Cylinder: Traditionally, these passages in Isaiah were believed to predate the rule of Cyrus by about 100 years, however, most modern scholars date Isaiah 40-55 (often referred to as Deutero-Isaiah), toward the end of the Babylonian exile (c. 536 BC).[9] Whereas Isaiah 1-39 (referred to as Proto-Isaiah) saw the destruction of Israel as imminent, and the restoration in the future, Deutero-Isaiah speaks of the destruction in the past (Isa 42:24-25), and the restoration as imminent (Isa 42:1-9). Notice, for example, the change in temporal perspective from (Isa 39:6-7), where the Babylonian Captivity is cast far in the future, to (Isa 43:14), where the Israelites are spoken of as already in Babylon.[10] According to scholar R. N. Whybray, the author of Deutero-Isaiah (chapters 40-55) was mistaken for he thought that Cyrus would destroy Babylon but he did not. Cyrus made it more splendid than ever. But he did allow the Jewish exiles to return home, though not in the triumphant manner which Deutero-Isaiah expected.

Cyrus the Great in the Bible - Wikipedia

 

[gnostic]

"Nearly 150 years before Cyrus was born, the prophet Isaiah foretold his birth, his name, and the tasks that the Creator God had predetermined for him to accomplish. The Bible records that certain people are foreordained to be born and carry out specific tasks for God during their lifetime and a few of these individuals are even named before their birth. Cyrus the Great was one of these individuals whom God had predestined to play a pivotal roll in his awesome plan for humanity."

"Cyrus was the grandson of Astyages, King of the Medes. He was born in the province of Persis, in southwest Iran in 590 BC and died in battle in 530 B.C.. He founded the Archaemenian dynasty and the Persian Empire. He overthrew three great empires: the Medes, Lydians, and Babylonians. He also united most of the ancient Middle East into a single state stretching from India to the Mediterranean Sea, which meant that he possessed the largest empire in the world at that time."

You can read all about it in Isaiah, Ezra and Daniel written about the seventh-sixth century BC and in secular history

One of the problems with the book of Isaiah, is that we don't not a complete book earlier than the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

If Isaiah was indeed a prophet of the 8th century BCE, there are not even a fragment of any such book exists at this time.

The book of Isaiah clearly indicated that there are several authors, written in times. Indications that some parts were written during the time of exile to Babylon, and at other times, when Jews began building the temple after exile. Whole chapters were interpolated into the earlier works.

It is a matter of context.

In earlier chapters, like Isaiah 39, it seemed that Jerusalem destruction will happened in the future, but in Isaiah 42 & 43, it speak of the destruction has already happened, and they were already living in exile at Babylon.

Isaiah 42 & 43 are contradictory to Isaiah 39.

 

[Magus]

I have being studying the Book of Isaiah for quite some time, it seems parts of Isaiah are
actually the Book of Kings, apparently written by Jeremiah.

Second Isaiah begins with verse 40.

2 Kings 20
(18)And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.
(19)Then said Hezekiah unto Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. And he said, Is it not good, if peace and truth be in my days?

Isaiah 39
(7)And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.
(8)Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

I have also discovered a 200 year chronological error in the Book of Ezra, which means the Temple was destroyed and looted during the reign of Artaxerxes III and so it was not really King Cyrus who saved the Jews, but Alexander the Great, since his Asiatic title was known as ' Kyrios tas Asias ' ( Lord of Asia ) and 'Kyrios' is near-identical to the name Cyrus.

κύριος ( Lord )
Κύρῳ - Κύρου - Κῦρος ( Cyrus )

 

[Magus]

Book of Isaiah as four authors

Isaiah 1 - 35 ( Original Isaiah )
Isaiah 35 - 39 ( 2 Kings )
Isaiah 40 - 55 ( Persian )
Isaiah 56 - 66 ( Post-Persian )

 

[sayak83]

Can you name a single one of those ancient cities that it was foretold centuries in advance who and how they would be conquered by? Nevermind, I know the answer, it was all written after the fact about 1600 or so, right?

Please quote the prophecy where the name of the conquererer is clearly written. Thank you. Your original post contained no name.

 

[sayak83]

How do you say 3nd?

2 ND sorry

 

[QuestioningMind]

Many, if not most of the Genesis deniers like to scoff and ridicule Scriptures as nothing more than myths and fairy tales. I suppose that is understandable coming from those that are ignorant, willing or not, of scripture. As an example of the Scriptures validity, there are over 100 prophecies that have been fulfilled in history exactly as it was foretold in scripture, below is just one example.

"Tyre's Stones, Timber and Soil Will Be Cast Into the Sea
In a remarkable prediction, the prophet writes in Ezekiel 26:12 (written between 587-586 BC) that the stone, timber and soil of Tyre will be thrown into the sea! This was fulfilled in 333-332 BC.

Ezekiel 26:12
They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.

The prophet said that Tyre's stones, timber and soil would be thrown into the sea. That's probably a fitting description of how Alexander the Great built a land bridge from the mainland to the island of Tyre when he attacked in 333-332 BC. It is believed that he took the rubble from Tyre's mainland ruins and tossed it - stones, timber and soil - into the sea, to build the land bridge (which is still there)."

Tyre is mentioned 57 times in scripture. Care to examine archeological evidence and secular history records and then explain how Scriptures are not historical? Then we can try a few dozen more.

Unless you have proof that this was written prior to 333 BC it is meaningless.

 

[QuestioningMind]

OK, how many prophecies, how many written centuries before, how many were fulfilled exactly as they were foretold, how many can be verified by secular history?

Folks are STILL waiting for your irrefutable evidence that these prophecies actually WERE written centuries before. Until you do that, your claims remain worthless.

 

[Curious George]

tl;dr
A nice catchphrase US Christians made up to further make it seem as if Christianity and Judaism are closer together than they actually are.

While in reality we don't even share the same scripture.

Lol, you prefer Nietzsche's use prior to the use by the Christian's in America?

 

[blü 2]

they came back to their homeland still spiking their original language.

But not as their first language; more like the Akkadians used Sumerian or the RCC uses Church Latin.

In addition, it was nothing short of a miracle they survived the Arab attack when they had few weapons and no help from the British or the Americans.

So God kills Muslims to oblige his Chosen People, you say? After he'd just put them through the Holocaust? Gimme a break!

 

[Flankerl]

Lol, you prefer Nietzsche's use prior to the use by the Christian's in America?

What do I care about Nietzsche? I get it, Americans got a weird love affair with him but how does that affect me or how other Jews view the term?

Oh right it doesn't.