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Na Nach

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I hope that this is the right subforum for this question
Oh my how do i start this...

Shalom fellow jews. This topic is part of the reason why i actually registered on the forum.

What should i really think about Na Nachs? I've obviously never met one as there are probably none in germany.
What i do know is that they seem to be... on the "positive" side of things.

But then again i dont know much about them. So i hope someone can share his or her wisdom with me.


I turn to the internet for help as our congregation doesnt have a rabbi and our chassan wasnt that much of a help. ;)



Flankerl
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I am assuming by the "Na Nachs" you are referring to Breslover Hasidim who believe in the teachings of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov?

What information do you seek about them?
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Yes i mean the Breslov Hasidim. And i think the "subgroup" calls themselve Na Nach... i guess. At least thats what i learned from a few sites including the evil wiki. ;)


I guess all kind of information as i didnt really found much useful. Also i think its always good to read the opinion of other jews concerning our various groups.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I don't know much about them, but I have studied some of their teachings.

Rabbi Nachman of Breslov taught the Torah in a way that is somewhat different to what people are used to. He taught that the Torah should be experienced, and that worshiping and serving God should be pleasing to the individual.

Like the Lubavitcher Rebbe he taught that simcha (joy) is important when performing a mitzvah (commandment).

One of his main ideas is that of "Hitbodedut" which is spontaneous meditation and prayer. Being an avid Kabbalist, Rabbi Nachman believed that the most powerful form of prayer was the spontaneous (and emotional) out pour of the heart to God.

From Breslov Research Institute:

In common with all observant Jews, Breslover Chassidim endeavor to adhere to the Written and Oral Torah as codified in the Shulchan Aruch. What makes Breslov Chassidism distinctive is its approach to fulfilling the spirit as well as the letter of the law. Torah living is experienced as a vital, joyous spiritual journey in which the individual seeks to develop his own unique potential in serving God and experiencing the Divine. The one universal practice which Rebbe Nachman emphasized more than any other -- hitbodedut -- is itself the most individual: daily sessions of private prayer and meditation in which each person talks to God in his own language in his own way about his own needs and concerns.

I, personally, am a huge fan of Rabbi Nachman's teachings.
 

Whoitbe

Member
Na Nach isn't really breslov. I'm living in Jerusalem and there's a ton of them doing kieruv(out reach) by dancing around to attract youngsters and the likes. Basically, the story is like this.

The nanach movement is an offshoot of breslov and is more or less an umbrella term for people who follow the na nach main idea. The idea is this. Rebbe nachman of breslov was a disciple of the Baal Shem tov(if I'm not mistaken or else the Maggie of mezritch, dunno haven't really learned much about breslov or rebbe nachman). Major tzaddik. He died years ago then this guy rabbi Odessa claimed to recieve a note from rebbe nachman somewhere in the 60's claiming the way to bring moshiachn is by saying na nach nachman meuman or something like that. He was meditating or something and he heard a voice saying "open a book, any book and it will contain a letter containing a secret" or something like that. So he opened a book and found a letter saying na nach nachman meuman and instructing that this is what you say to bring moschiach. This mind you is like 150 or more years after rebbe nachmans death. Probably later like 200 years(like I said, idk the specifics of rebbe nachman or breslov too well).

But, it caused a split in breslov and the na nachas developed their own sort of philosohh to Torah which involves dancing and being simcha(joyful) all the time. They really aren't breslov because though they both study the same chassidus, the na nach philosophy is too different than other breslov chassidim. So they're really an offshoot hippy movement of breslov. A lot of the ones you see dancing on the streets are pretty nuts IMO. To my knowledge I don't think there's even a single nanach yeshiva.

Real breslovers are really charedi. Black bekashas, the flat hats, long peyos, etc. The na nach movement IMO is an unusual Israeli religious subculture. I've definitely seen them doing kieruv with some very untznius methodology. I.e. Performing music and having men and women dance together @ Ben yehuda. I'm sure a wikipedia could tell you as much or more than I did about them. But, most breslovers don't consider them breslov.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Na Nach isn't really breslov. I'm living in Jerusalem and there's a ton of them doing kieruv(out reach) by dancing around to attract youngsters and the likes. Basically, the story is like this.

The nanach movement is an offshoot of breslov and is more or less an umbrella term for people who follow the na nach main idea. The idea is this. Rebbe nachman of breslov was a disciple of the Baal Shem tov(if I'm not mistaken or else the Maggie of mezritch, dunno haven't really learned much about breslov or rebbe nachman). Major tzaddik. He died years ago then this guy rabbi Odessa claimed to recieve a note from rebbe nachman somewhere in the 60's claiming the way to bring moshiachn is by saying na nach nachman meuman or something like that. He was meditating or something and he heard a voice saying "open a book, any book and it will contain a letter containing a secret" or something like that. So he opened a book and found a letter saying na nach nachman meuman and instructing that this is what you say to bring moschiach. This mind you is like 150 or more years after rebbe nachmans death. Probably later like 200 years(like I said, idk the specifics of rebbe nachman or breslov too well).

But, it caused a split in breslov and the na nachas developed their own sort of philosohh to Torah which involves dancing and being simcha(joyful) all the time. They really aren't breslov because though they both study the same chassidus, the na nach philosophy is too different than other breslov chassidim. So they're really an offshoot hippy movement of breslov. A lot of the ones you see dancing on the streets are pretty nuts IMO. To my knowledge I don't think there's even a single nanach yeshiva.

Real breslovers are really charedi. Black bekashas, the flat hats, long peyos, etc. The na nach movement IMO is an unusual Israeli religious subculture. I've definitely seen them doing kieruv with some very untznius methodology. I.e. Performing music and having men and women dance together @ Ben yehuda. I'm sure a wikipedia could tell you as much or more than I did about them. But, most breslovers don't consider them breslov.

I suppose it is a matter of opinion. The "Na Nachs" as a subgroup seem to be Breslovers, but with strange ideas and traditions.

Their doing things they shouldn't...well every group has followers who will do what they shouldn't because they think they should.

Oh well. I guess the best way to learn would be to talk to them.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
I hope that this is the right subforum for this question
Oh my how do i start this...

Shalom fellow jews. This topic is part of the reason why i actually registered on the forum.

What should i really think about Na Nachs? I've obviously never met one as there are probably none in germany.
What i do know is that they seem to be... on the "positive" side of things.

But then again i dont know much about them. So i hope someone can share his or her wisdom with me.


I turn to the internet for help as our congregation doesnt have a rabbi and our chassan wasnt that much of a help.



Flankerl

From what I know, the deal is that a Breslover rav, one of the early olim (immigrants) to Israel at the beginning of the 20th century, claimed to have miraculously found a petek (which is a note left for someone, as opposed to a letter written to send to someone) which he claimed to be from Rebbe Nachman, who had died around a hundred years earlier. Now, it is not entirely unknown for Hasidim to occasionally find some lost letter or teaching of their founding Rebbe that turns up after a few years (usually not quite so long after, but still...), which may or may not result in some new glimmer of wisdom or nugget of insight their Rebbe had to teach.

Whether this rav's petek really was written by Rebbe Nachman has never been conclusively proven, and while there are reasons to believe it could have been, there are certainly also reasons to doubt. But this rav definitely believed it, and, having read Rebbe Nachman's works thoroughly, which are laced with mysterious mystical allusions, he promptly read mysterious mystical allusions into the very brief (and, admittedly, odd) text of the petek. The petek was signed Na Nach Nachm Nachman me'uman. The mystical reasons for spelling out Nachman in agglomerative steps could be many; the word me'uman is a very clever pun. The port city of Uman was where Rebbe Nachman died (en route to Israel, some say, although others say he intended to die there): me-Uman can mean "from Uman," and indeed he might have written deathbed notes for his Hasidim to leave for others to find-- the great Rebbes sometimes did things like that. But me'uman also means "honestly," or "to be believed:" in other words, it might not be translated "Nachman, from Uman," but "[from] Nachman, to be believed," or perhaps "Really [from] Nachman."

The rav decided that Na Nach Nachm Nachman was now his mantra for meditation, and he popularized it greatly as such.

One must understand that Breslovers have always had a curious flirtation with messianism. Most Breslovers would probably deny it, but it actually seems clear that Rebbe Nachman himself flirted with the idea that he could be the moshiach (messiah), and most of his Hasidim were ready to believe him and support him, had he declared that he was. But he never did...directly. He hinted. He made oblique allusions. He made veiled references. But he never came out and said it. And, especially since in his time, memories were still strong of the false messiahs Shabtai Tzvi and Yakov Frank, none of his Hasidim dared to suggest it before he said anything directly; which he never did-- perhaps, if for no other reason, than the fact that many had also thought that his grandfather, the Baal Shem Tov, could have been the moshiach, and the Baal Shem always distanced himself from such speculations.

I think part of the reason that Breslovers never chose another rebbe after Rebbe Nachman is that they had more than half believed Rebbe Nachman was the moshiach, and his death, without his ever saying so, and without bringing redemption to the world, crushed them.

The rav of the petek, and the Na Nach-niks who sing and chant after his teachings, probably believe Rebbe Nachman could have been the moshiach. And they do believe that the use of Na Nach Nachm Nachman me-uman as a mantra and chant aids in bringing moshiach.

There has been, over the past few decades, an emergent movement in the Breslover world focusing on kiruv (bringing non-Orthodox Jews "back" to Orthodoxy), and this movement is often densely populated by baalei teshuvah (formerly non-Orthodox Jews now Orthodox) who became baalei teshuvah after studying with Breslovers (as well as with other Hasidim). Most of the Na Nach-niks that you see, dancing in the streets, singing, chanting, sometimes intoxicated, with giant yarn kippot, or occasionally tie-dyed tzitzit, are baalei teshuvah. But there are actual Breslover Hasidim who are Na Nach-niks, just somewhat more restrained and Hasidic in style. They are tolerated amongst normative Breslovers, I understand, although most of the Breslovers I know consider the me'uman petek to be interesting, perhaps even miraculous, but subject to debate in terms of meaning and perhaps even authenticity.
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Ah i see. I knew of the "Na Nach Nachm Nachman me'uman" phrase a bit but really not so much.


Thanks a lot everyone and a good shabbat

Flankerl
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
So, I had the pleasure of meeting a few Breslovers this weekend, one of whom was a Na Nach-nik, and asked them about this.

The non-Na Nach Breslovers said that they don't see the Na-Nach-niks and differently. And the Na Nach guy was saying that he simply enjoys using the phrase as a meditation tool.

He did like to dance, and there was lots of singing going on. But it wasn't any different with him than with other Breslovers.


Also, I got the wonderful opportunity of meeting the Skver Rebbe and going to a tish for the Sheva Brachah of his grandson. It was an awesome experience. In the personal audience we were given with him, you could feel the energy in the room when he started to daven. I still remember the experience vividly and will long hold it in my heart.
 

Whoitbe

Member
You met the Skver rebbe? Where do they have tishes? Meah Shearim? Skver are the dudes with the high wellington like boots, no? I'm living in zichron Moshe, studying on q yeshiva. You live in Jerusalem I assume? Where abouts?
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
You met the Skver rebbe? Where do they have tishes? Meah Shearim? Skver are the dudes with the high wellington like boots, no? I'm living in zichron Moshe, studying on q yeshiva. You live in Jerusalem I assume? Where abouts?

I am currently living in New York. Down next to Monsey is a town called "New Skver". The Skverer Rebbe lives there.
 
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