sandandfoam
Veteran Member
There is an on-going discussion in our house about the importance of nationality. What's your view, is nationality important?
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Nationality - is it important?
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
People who share a citizenship with me are boycotted and singled out even for non political pursuits such as writing, dance, music, or sports. Evidently it is highly important.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I think such actions are unhelpful at best.
Because others make it so or because it is intrinsically so?
Nationality has consequences, as well pointed out by Caladan. But it shouldn't have nearly as much as it does.
Inherently, it is of course all but completely arbitrary and meaningless. Hopefully we will accept and enforce that sooner rather than later.
Inherently, it is of course all but completely arbitrary and meaningless. Hopefully we will accept and enforce that sooner rather than later.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
what are you defining as 'nationality'? Geographical identity or Ancestor identity?
Each of my grandparents are of a different race.... i dont think it would be fair of me to choose one over the other as more important or superior.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
What it says on your passport
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
But are very real and therefore important.
Provably both, the question is to which differing levels. People who are being challenged because of their mother culture/nation are likely to be more defiant. The averag person may have conscious and unconscious affinities to their culture/nation but not in the sense of placing it at odds with the global cultural jigsaw. Rather in the sense that we don't live in a world where we all share one language, one authority, one mentality, or the same taboos. All these things matter. If you travel Saudi Arabia as an Irish man, you are going to be noticed very quickly, and the national sensibilities of the region are going to be different from yours. Not different enough as to not receive hospitality or kindness but different in such a way that makes it important for you to realize the national environment.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
You raise an interesting question - are nationality and culture synonymous?
I might as well put my cards on the table at this point - I have little time for nationality or nationalism, the rest of our household who have an opinion hold the opposite to mine btw.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Quite so. However, I would choose to contest such actions on the basis that their premise is illegitimate.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
These notions have been redefined in the last century or two. In many ways culture, nation, religion all come into play still. Before modern days even your religion was equal to your nationality or citizenship.
People are born to different circumstances, some are challenged to follow national patterns, some don't experience the same pressure or circumstances. I have an attitude for each circumstance. Obviously when I meet people from around the world, beyond the mutual curiosities about the others culture/nation, what we look for are cool people to spend time with wherever they may hail from. However, sometimes I do notice that when I witness certain things my cultural and national mentality and sensibilities provoke a knee jerk reaction, and the same goes for any other person I know who has different nationality or culture.
I can say that my wife is my best friend but we have very different mentalities and ways to react to various things, evidently much of it stems from our national baggage.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
One wouldn't be human if one didn't feel a bond and an affinity with one's country and countrymen.
But in the grand scheme of things...
I'm reminded of the quote -
'The world is my country. To do good is my religion.'
An attitude and consciousness we should all be striving for.
Ideally it's only as important as the individual makes it (for me; I don't consider myself "American" as I have no patriotic/nationalistic loyalties to the country as a whole, as the entire USA outside Diablo Valley may as well be a foreign country.)
In reality, it's as important as society and government make it for the individual. But it's also something that's completely arbitrary. To use my VERY limited knowledge of recent Irish history as an example (please correct me if I'm wrong on any details), Irish Nationalism (if there's a more appropriate term, please let me know), involves being Catholic, despite the fact that Catholicism is Roman... that is, from Rome... which is in Italy... and it's a form of Christianity... which is geographically a Mediterranean religion. Sure some elements of Irish paganism still echo in the lore, but I don't know how recognizable it would be to a pre-Christian Irish Pagan.
On my mother's side, I'm almost entirely of Irish descent; and yet I follow the religion that historical Irish would recognize as Barbarian. (I justify it because I've read that the Vikings are the founders of Dublin. ^_^)
It's something that I think shouldn't be as relevant as it often is.
In reality, it's as important as society and government make it for the individual. But it's also something that's completely arbitrary. To use my VERY limited knowledge of recent Irish history as an example (please correct me if I'm wrong on any details), Irish Nationalism (if there's a more appropriate term, please let me know), involves being Catholic, despite the fact that Catholicism is Roman... that is, from Rome... which is in Italy... and it's a form of Christianity... which is geographically a Mediterranean religion. Sure some elements of Irish paganism still echo in the lore, but I don't know how recognizable it would be to a pre-Christian Irish Pagan.
On my mother's side, I'm almost entirely of Irish descent; and yet I follow the religion that historical Irish would recognize as Barbarian. (I justify it because I've read that the Vikings are the founders of Dublin. ^_^)
It's something that I think shouldn't be as relevant as it often is.
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I think depends on the desired result. National identity can bond groups together, create a sense of shared ownership and responsibility, and allow differing cultures and ideologies to work together towards a common goal. But it also has other consequences: exclusion of outside groups, the risk of xenophobia and jingoism, and groupthink.
Not to God. (Acts 10:34,35)
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Do you not think it is a little presumptuous to speak on His behalf?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Define important.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Something of value.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Then I suppose nationality is important to someone who derives a sense of value or purpose from their particular nationality. Additionally, it could be important if holding a nationality entitles one to certain benefits not received by people who don't hold that nationality.
