NATO Invites Finland & Sweden To Join NATO

[Suave]

The only difference, according to my understanding, is that it is harder for an anti-ballistic missile system to defend against a hypersonic missile, due to its speed and, I think, ability to manoeuvre in flight. But as far as MAD goes, I think you're right: it makes no difference.

What may also be important is that Putin's ability to assemble many of these is likely to be hamstrung by the embargo on supplying sensitive micro-electronic components to Russia. There are already accounts from Ukraine of Russian missiles containing repurposed microprocessors out of washing machines.

I am confident NATO expansion will persuade China to align with Russia, this alliance will enrich China with energy and Russia with raw materials to strengthen Russia's military. Please let us realize US and EU sanctions against Russia have backfired. Russia,s economy is now growing while that of the US and Europe are stagnate as well as plagued with inflation. The Russian Ruble's value has doubled since Western sanctions we're imposed in February.

 

[Suave]

I thought I heard something not long ago about how it's harder for them to get stuff to Kaliningrad. Is that true?

Are you talking about the satan 2? I thought that's the one I keep seeing articles on. Is that one hypersonic? I don't understand, at all, what difference the distance thing makes with all this. Retaliation would occur from sea, no matter how fast the first strike is. And I suspect that neither side can really get total bearing on where the subs are

Russian stealth subs could very well sink a NATO naval blockade attempt on Kaliningrad. I am confident the Russian navy is able to keep the Baltic Sea open for Russia to transport supplies and weapons to Kaliningrad.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am confident NATO expansion will persuade China to align with Russia, this alliance will enrich China with energy and Russia with raw materials to strengthen Russia's military. Please let us realize US and EU sanctions against Russia have backfired. Russia,s economy is now growing while that of the US and Europe are stagnate as well as plagued with inflation. The Russian Ruble's value has doubled since Western sanctions we're imposed in February.

Which is absolutely terrific for the populists. Because all this will unleash the populace's rage against the EU, the elites.
And populists will use this rage.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I am confident NATO expansion will persuade China to align with Russia, this alliance will enrich China with energy and Russia with raw materials to strengthen Russia's military. Please let us realize US and EU sanctions against Russia have backfired. Russia,s economy is now growing while that of the US and Europe are stagnate as well as plagued with inflation. The Russian Ruble's value has doubled since Western sanctions we're imposed in February.

I think as well, putin probably wants Ukrainian wheat fields. I saw some high figures for how much they produce.

 

[Quetzal]

I am confident NATO expansion will persuade China to align with Russia

I am not sure if I agree. Let's take a look at some of China's exports by country:

1. United States $577.13B 2021
2. Hong Kong $349.44B 2021
3. Japan $165.82B 2021
4. South Korea $148.85B 2021
5. Vietnam $137.90B 2021
6. Germany $115.18B 2021
7. Netherlands $102.43B 2021
8. India $97.51B 2021
9. United Kingdom $87.03B 2021
10. Malaysia $78.70B 2021
11. Thailand $69.36B 2021
12. Russia $67.55B 2021

It seems like a considerable risk for China to side with Russia, given that the US alone contributes 8x more to their exports. On down the list we also see Germany, the Netherlands, and the UK; all NATO members. It is fair to say that these countries are just as reliant on China as China is reliant on them. But even if these countries cut their imports by 10%, it would be pretty crushing.

I am not sure China pulls that trigger, but I have been surprised a lot this year.

 

[exchemist]

Russian stealth subs could very well sink a NATO naval blockade attempt on Kaliningrad. I am confident the Russian navy is able to keep the Baltic Sea open for Russia to transport supplies and weapons to Kaliningrad.

There is no naval blockade of Kaliningrad. What has happened is Lithuania, across which the road and rail links run, has started to enforce the EU sanctions that apply to certain classes of goods. The Russian navy is irrelevant.

 

[Suave]

There is no naval blockade of Kaliningrad. What has happened is Lithuania, across which the road and rail links run, has started to enforce the EU sanctions that apply to certain classes of goods. The Russian navy is irrelevant.

I suppose because of stealth Russian submarines patrolling the Baltic Sea, NATO would not dare attempt a naval blockade against Russia,

 

[Suave]

I am not sure if I agree. Let's take a look at some of China's exports by country:

1. United States $577.13B 2021
2. Hong Kong $349.44B 2021
3. Japan $165.82B 2021
4. South Korea $148.85B 2021
5. Vietnam $137.90B 2021
6. Germany $115.18B 2021
7. Netherlands $102.43B 2021
8. India $97.51B 2021
9. United Kingdom $87.03B 2021
10. Malaysia $78.70B 2021
11. Thailand $69.36B 2021
12. Russia $67.55B 2021

It seems like a considerable risk for China to side with Russia, given that the US alone contributes 8x more to their exports. On down the list we also see Germany, the Netherlands, and the UK; all NATO members. It is fair to say that these countries are just as reliant on China as China is reliant on them. But even if these countries cut their imports by 10%, it would be pretty crushing.

I am not sure China pulls that trigger, but I have been surprised a lot this year.

Please let us consider China does produce most of the world's lithium ion batteries as well as the raw materials we would like for us to generate or store environmentally friendly renewable energy.

 

[Quetzal]

Please let us consider China does produce most of the world's lithium ion batteries as well as the raw materials we would like for us to generate or store environmentally friendly renewable energy.

I agree, this is a mutually beneficial relationship, right? My question is this: does allying with Russia make that gamble worth it from China's perspective? I don't have answers.

 

[esmith]

Well according to Deutsche Messe AG you will not have to worry about the raw materials for lithium ion batteries from China because the supply of colbat and lithium will be too expensive by 2050 or gone.
Energy Solutions: Raw materials for lithium-ion batteries are running out
What you EV going to use then, pixie dust?

 

[Suave]

Well according to Deutsche Messe AG you will not have to worry about the raw materials for lithium ion batteries from China because the supply of colbat and lithium will be too expensive by 2050 or gone.
Energy Solutions: Raw materials for lithium-ion batteries are running out
What you EV going to use then, pixie dust?

No worries, I'm hopeful there is probably plenty of lithium on the moon for future generations to mine and transport back to Earth. ...

 

[Stevicus]

I suppose because of stealth Russian submarines patrolling the Baltic Sea, NATO would not dare attempt a naval blockade against Russia,

That, and a blockade would be considered an act of war, which NATO seems to want to avoid at present. That's why we never actually blockaded Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. They called a "quarantine" instead.

 

[esmith]

That, and a blockade would be considered an act of war, which NATO seems to want to avoid at present. That's why we never actually blockaded Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. They called a "quarantine" instead.

Well, I think I remeber it was a blockade, at least that was what we werre told aboard my ship.
Kennedy imposes naval blockade of Cuba , Oct. 22, 1962

 

[Stevicus]

Well, I think I remeber it was a blockade, at least that was what we werre told aboard my ship.
Kennedy imposes naval blockade of Cuba , Oct. 22, 1962

It was a blockade, for all intents and purposes, but they didn't actually call it that, for political reasons. ROBERT McNAMARA (gwu.edu)



INT: ... Could you just explain to me briefly how the decision to quarantine evolved? I'm quite interested to hear again [about] the change of mood within the ExComm committee, or change of opinion.

RM: The ExComm came I think to the unanimous conclusion that it was necessary, in the interests of NATO security, Western Europe security, US security, to pressure the Soviets in ways that would lead to removal of the missiles. Secondly, we wished to do that with as little military risk as possible, as little military risk in the pressure itself and as little risk of military response after that initial step was taken. It was believed that what was called a "quarantine", which in a sense was a naval blockade, [was] called a quarantine because a quarantine had less of a military connotation than "blockade"... it was believed that the quarantine would convey to Khrushchev the determination of the President to see that those missiles were removed, without stimulating a military response, and that's why the quarantine was approved.

 

[esmith]

It was a blockade, for all intents and purposes, but they didn't actually call it that, for political reasons. ROBERT McNAMARA (gwu.edu)



INT: ... Could you just explain to me briefly how the decision to quarantine evolved? I'm quite interested to hear again [about] the change of mood within the ExComm committee, or change of opinion.

RM: The ExComm came I think to the unanimous conclusion that it was necessary, in the interests of NATO security, Western Europe security, US security, to pressure the Soviets in ways that would lead to removal of the missiles. Secondly, we wished to do that with as little military risk as possible, as little military risk in the pressure itself and as little risk of military response after that initial step was taken. It was believed that what was called a "quarantine", which in a sense was a naval blockade, [was] called a quarantine because a quarantine had less of a military connotation than "blockade"... it was believed that the quarantine would convey to Khrushchev the determination of the President to see that those missiles were removed, without stimulating a military response, and that's why the quarantine was approved.

See above highlighted text. When we forced USSR submarines to the surface, you can call it whatever you want but it was a bloackade. This was as close to nuclear war that I ever want to see again. I have been close enough to nuclear air bursts to feel the heat and witness high altitude nuclear burst and I never want to feel or see them again.