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Natural law vs. man made laws

arcanum

Active Member
Natural law is basically self evident laws which derive from nature or god, and which spring more from one's natural inborn sense of decency and conscience than something imposed upon oneself by the tyranny of other men or the hierarchy of religion for the purposes of control. The more I dwell upon it the more it makes sense. There are many laws which people have to live under, both secular and religious, many of which are ludicrous and seem to go contrary to human nature. All these laws are like a barbed wire fence around one's sense of self. I don't need a religion to tell me not to harm anyone or if possible anything, or don't take anything that doesn't belong to me, and not to be dishonest. Not that I haven't been guilty of these things in the past but I at least felt bad about them because I have a healthy conscience that I got from nature or god. I think these are basic commonsense things that most humans know not to do unless they have the tendencies of a sociopath or psychopath. Unfortunately I think our society is creating more and more of these types of people as modern society has gotten far away from common sense and are thus creating monsters. Do you feel guilty about violating a strange counter intuitive man made law, like jaywalking? I don't know about you but I don't. But if I accidentally step on a dog's paw and cause it pain I feel horrible. This is an example of natural law at work. So we have two different sets of laws we must live under, but I feel that many of the often complicated and labyrinthine man mad laws have gotten so out of alignment with common sense that it is doing humanity a huge disservice and outright harm.
 
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arcanum

Active Member
You seem to be confusing empathy with laws...
Not really, though I would say empathy should be one of the fundamental building blocks or pillars in ones inborn sense of being which makes one live according to natural law.:shrug:
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Natural law is basically self evident laws which derive from nature or god, and which spring more from one's natural inborn sense of decency and conscience than something imposed upon oneself by the tyranny of other men or the hierarchy of religion for the purposes of control. The more I dwell upon it the more it makes sense. There are many laws which people have to live under, both secular and religious, many of which are ludicrous and seem to go contrary to human nature. All these laws are like a barbed wire fence around one's sense of self. I don't need a religion to tell me not to harm anyone or if possible anything, or don't take anything that doesn't belong to me, and not to be dishonest. Not that I haven't been guilty of these things in the past but I at least felt bad about them because I have a healthy conscience that I got from nature or god. I think these are basic commonsense things that most humans know not to do unless they have the tendencies of a sociopath or psychopath. Unfortunately I think our society is creating more and more of these types of people as modern society has gotten far away from common sense and are thus creating monsters. Do you feel guilty about violating a strange counter intuitive man made law, like jaywalking? I don't know about you but I don't. But if I accidentally step on a dog's paw and cause it pain I feel horrible. This is an example of natural law at work. So we have two different sets of laws we must live under, but I feel that many of the often complicated and labyrinthine man mad laws have gotten so out of alignment with common sense that it is doing humanity a huge disservice and outright harm.

Hi...... I don't know where ct is, but if you live in the USA, then yes, your laws are rather complicated. But many countries have rewritten (most of) their laws over the last 60 years and any lay person with secondary education can read and understand them, and they are all easily accessible. To do away with them would cause horrid confusion and anarchy, which most of us don't want.

If you want to live just by the laws of nature, then evolution's demands will produce a very hard world for you to live in, because the only rule would be :-do everything you can to survive and pass on your genes. Now that would be hell on Earth, methinks.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
1. You assume a "natural law" exists
2. You assume so by your relative human perspective
3. I challenge you to name a law that is not "man-made"
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
I figured that natural law would be something more akin to objectively measurable patterns in nature, such as the law of gravity and conservation of energy.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
I figured that natural law would be something more akin to objectively measurable patterns in nature, such as the law of gravity and conservation of energy.


Ah, scientific perspective of human making laws upon that which we do not fully understand....
 

technomage

Finding my own way
I figured that natural law would be something more akin to objectively measurable patterns in nature, such as the law of gravity and conservation of energy.
The concept of "Natural law" started with Plato. He tried to deduce a set of universal moral laws, as opposed to man-made "positive" law. Then Thomas Aquinas took off with the idea, and it's been a common factor in Christian apologetics ever since.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
1. You assume a "natural law" exists
2. You assume so by your relative human perspective
3. I challenge you to name a law that is not "man-made"

How about 'irresistible instincts', such as any creature is driven by?
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
The concept of "Natural law" started with Plato. He tried to deduce a set of universal moral laws, as opposed to man-made "positive" law. Then Thomas Aquinas took off with the idea, and it's been a common factor in Christian apologetics ever since.

Does gravity have morals? or is that a HUMAN perspective?
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
A lot of laws are due to complication of large societies and organizations that become creatures working/fighting for their own survival... Losing perspective of why they exist in the first place.

Natural law and man-made law is tied together. As smart, educated, etc. as people are now they somehow forget that morality/teamwork/relationship is key to survival and making the most of survival. Detachment and laziness probably has a lot to do with it :shrug:
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
I would like to provide an example that further illustrates my point. Read this story, an example of zero tolerance man made policies vs. common sense, what best serves the individual and society at large, blind obedience to law and dictate or common sense?
Sixth-Grade Girl Stops Classmate from Cutting Himself — Then Gets a Shocking Punishment | Video | TheBlaze.com

So you're not arguing for "natural law" at all. You're arguing for a return to the spirit and not the letter of the law.
 

arcanum

Active Member
So you're not arguing for "natural law" at all. You're arguing for a return to the spirit and not the letter of the law.
I'm arguing that there is a huge difference between natural law, which would appear to be written in a mentally healthy individuals heart, as it were, and calculating, ruminating, back room cigar contrived man made laws, much of which go contrary to the nature and conscience of homo sapiens. All these laws go back to one thing: control. There has always been an elite who derive laws to control the masses, religion has been a very effective tool in this regard.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
I'm arguing that there is a huge difference between natural law, which would appear to be written in a mentally healthy individuals heart, as it were, and calculating, ruminating, back room cigar contrived man made laws, much of which go contrary to the nature and conscience of homo sapiens. All these laws go back to one thing: control. There has always been an elite who derive laws to control the masses, religion has been a very effective tool in this regard.

How is mental health defined in an objective non-man-made way?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
How about 'irresistible instincts', such as any creature is driven by?

Instincts relating to morality are different from not only species to species, but also person to person.

The only common instincts I can think of would be something such as blinking, breathing, etc.
 

arcanum

Active Member
How is mental health defined in an objective non-man-made way?
I can't give you an honest that answer to that, I think that modern society has shaped the psyche of modern man to such a degree that it's almost impossible to compare pre modern man to modern man. I think we all still have what's called a conscience, which is your innate ability to tell right from wrong. if that is still healthy, as in intact and fully functioning, if one still feels guilt for ones wrongs, then that is, at least for the most part, mentally healthy. In other words if you commit a selfish act, which is harmful to another, and don't feel bad about it, you might not be a very healthy individual mentally.
 
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