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Nazism Is Not a Political Trump Card

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
More times than I can count, I have heard and read arguments comparing people and stances that someone finds objectionable or offensive to Hitler and Nazism. Most recently, I have seen this comparison made between Donald Trump and Hitler.

Now, I do agree that Trump is a horrible person, as are a lot of other people, and I agree that certain ideologies are horrible as well. However, I wouldn't compare most of them to Hitler or Nazism, respectively. I think the comparisons to Hitler and Nazism get thrown around way too casually, carelessly, and irresponsibly by some people. Few figures in human history have caused as much suffering to as many people as Hitler and the Nazis did. The Nazis killed disabled people, burned Jews alive, and built concentration camps where horrifying, indescribable pain was inflicted upon the captives.

I just find it tasteless and downright irresponsible when someone casually uses the gruesome crimes of Nazis and the reprehensible character of Hitler as trump cards in political or religious debates. Please, just remember that whoever you are comparing to Hitler has probably never killed as many people as Hitler did, and probably never will.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Certain folks like to take poetic license and hyperbole to their maximums for rhetorical purposes. I tend to look at it as nothing more than that. When I was younger I would take more poetic license like that too... until I realized that by doing so I probably wasn't communicating what I intended to. It makes one look like an unreasonable fanatic to use such rhetoric. There's nothing necessarily wrong with fanatical rhetoric, we should just take extra care on what issues we go to that level on. Make sure they are the issues that really matter - the one's you'd plant your flag on and die for.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
The point as I see it is where did Hitler start?

how ever the op makes a good point and agree but not completely.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Trump has none of the charisma that Hitler displayed, that enabled him to lead people to their distruction.
However he displays the same sort of prejudices and nastiness from his core.
perhaps it is helpful to have that attitude in business.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Trump has none of the charisma that Hitler displayed, that enabled him to lead people to their distruction.
However he displays the same sort of prejudices and nastiness from his core.
perhaps it is helpful to have that attitude in business.
He may not have charisma but he has $$$ and fame which in America is more important. lol
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Now, I do agree that Trump is a horrible person, as are a lot of other people, and I agree that certain ideologies are horrible as well. However, I wouldn't compare most of them to Hitler or Nazism, respectively.
And I wouldn't compare the Hitler and NSDAP who received but 30% of the 1932 vote to the Hitler and Nazism that we associate with the Third Reich.

This Hitler and this Nazism are, in many respects, incomparable. But the minute Trump becomes the leader of a movement rather than the leader of a campaign we will be confronted by a very serious domestic fascist threat. Do I believe that people will be gassed by the millions? No. But people will be victimized, terrorized, and killed because of their religion and ethnicity.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Please, just remember that whoever you are comparing to Hitler has probably never killed as many people as Hitler did, and probably never will.
There is a flip side to that though. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it".
Hitler had not killed anyone when he rose to power. But he was a master of exploitation. He told the people what they wanted to hear, including "It's not your fault everything is a mess. It's those Jews and Communists and such!" All the while acquiring support from the rich with his "business friendly" policies.
Things are different now. It would be impossible to keep a secret like the Final Solution. But for all practical purposes, Hitler got his power from the slogan:
MAKE GERMANY GREAT AGAIN

TOM
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
I just find it tasteless and downright irresponsible when someone casually uses the gruesome crimes of Nazis and the reprehensible character of Hitler as trump cards in political or religious debates. Please, just remember that whoever you are comparing to Hitler has probably never killed as many people as Hitler did, and probably never will.

I totally agree. When people refer to Hitler and the Nazis, they are trying to think of the worst people possible. It is almost always a gross exaggeration. Plus it's lazy and a conversation stopper.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I agree, it's absurd.
Trump is more like a Goebbels or a Fritzsche, at worst.
I see him as more of a Moe Hailstone.

For those who don't know the name.....
th
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
More times than I can count, I have heard and read arguments comparing people and stances that someone finds objectionable or offensive to Hitler and Nazism. Most recently, I have seen this comparison made between Donald Trump and Hitler.

Now, I do agree that Trump is a horrible person, as are a lot of other people, and I agree that certain ideologies are horrible as well. However, I wouldn't compare most of them to Hitler or Nazism, respectively. I think the comparisons to Hitler and Nazism get thrown around way too casually, carelessly, and irresponsibly by some people. Few figures in human history have caused as much suffering to as many people as Hitler and the Nazis did. The Nazis killed disabled people, burned Jews alive, and built concentration camps where horrifying, indescribable pain was inflicted upon the captives.

I just find it tasteless and downright irresponsible when someone casually uses the gruesome crimes of Nazis and the reprehensible character of Hitler as trump cards in political or religious debates. Please, just remember that whoever you are comparing to Hitler has probably never killed as many people as Hitler did, and probably never will.

I would compare Trump to Hitler. It is a mistake to think that the evils of National Socialism were simply the product of one man, and we fall for the Nazi rheotric of Furhership and the Cult of the "strong leader" when we think that. Hitler was a crank who would have died relatively unknown, a minor viennese artist, that was the leader of a tiny cult and prone to anti-semitic rages. What made Hitler was not his charisma, nor his ideology, but the willingness of a people to believe and follow him. Germany had been swinging from one crisis to another in the weirmar period in the 1920's. Previous Chancellors had exercised emergency powers and people had come to accept dictatorial authority and many craved it after in the absence of the Kiaser.And people got that desperate that they wanted someone to save them from the difficult decisions.

After 9/11, George W. Bush has set a precendet for American dictatorship. The War in Iraq was an act of military aggression that violated international law. Guantanamo Bay and a string of secret US camps accross Europe meant that human rights violations went unchecked. Torture was used against terrorist suspects many of whom were innocent and members of the intelligent establishment protested both the ineffectivness and cruelty of "enhanced interrogration techniques" behind closed doors but congress didn't care because they saw it work on 24. Civil Liberties have been rolled back and suspended and the Mass Media lined up to promote the Presidents's message. Then Obama came in, with a message of "hope" and "change" that was not delivered. The war in iraq ended, and the solders came back to the US and swapped army uniforms for police uniforms, using the same military hardware in bagdad now as military surplus was put onto the streets. the US prison population has expanded massively from the 1980's and provides a cheap source of labour. The NSA is still reading our e-mails. It is extremely polarised and total fabrications gets circulated in the news, leaving the public deeply mis-informed, easily manipulated, on top of the problems of religious literalism, fundamentalism and maybe even homeschooling because people are afriad of children being indoctorinated in a classroom. Many believe and want simple minded nonesnese of the great battle of "good versus evil" as pictures of violence are broadcast continously into their homes being told how it is everywhere lurking in just out the field of vision. the economic situation is dire, the middle class is in decline. kids can't get decent jobs and haven't for a long time. the flag waving conservatives and libertarians have become a mass movement with corporate backing, a coheret, if anti-intellectual ideology which is able to reproduce itself in social media; an apocolyptic ideology of clash of civilsations with Islamo-fascism, the conspiratorial march of "cultural marxism" and the climate change hoax , FEMA camps and 9/11 truthers and the decay into a Socialist dictatorship under the Kenyan Anti-Christ sitting the White House and the threat of government default and economic collapse or even a race war being waged on the streets against white cops in the name of political correctness. Americans are frightened of the world whilst having the largest defence budget of the next 16 countries combined (15 of whom are allies) and still cling desperately to the second amendment rights in the dellusion that firearms will stop the most technologically advanced military force in the world if it chose to declare martial law assuming they are even serious enough and not thinking that life is like the movies. The amount of fictional crisies and the denial of real ones is exactly like the psyche of Weimar Germany. that mixture of political uncertianity and moral simplicity are fertile grounds for creating a cult.

it is a mistake to think that Nazism would repeat the same way it did in the 1930's. The World has changed since then, but it deeply nieve to think that the past 30 years of propaganda and fear has not so rotted the american society that they would vote Trump in. given that he has already said he'd introduce a muslim database, ban muslims from entering the US- he's got the demographic to demonise, to blame and bomb.

all ISL have to is stage a major attack on US soil, that grabs the headlines and let the 24 hour news cycle do the rest. then it's all eyes on Trump. the money rolls in, the polls go up and the demagogue is heard and people will liste because they want to believe. They need it. conservatives will cheer, liberals sit silently appaulled- he'll be a hero to many, a villan to others, and the experts will be baffled as they always are but in disbelief never dreaming it could happen they'll stayed tune in because theres only one message they will want to hear. What we forget is, is that Nazism made people feel good; a sense of purpose in uncertain times, strength in face of adveristy, faith in all the things we're told not to believe in. those hidden dark parts of ourselves we try to keep secret get a chance to come out. When you feel small, make someone else feel smaller. you hurt us, so we'll hurt you even more. America is pretty close to fascism. all Trump needs to do is not let a good crisis go to waste and he's in. Clinton lost once, so can it happen again? would you really want to vote for the establishment? there's more than enough oppurtunity for things to go in that direction. the mood can shift and people will stop being respectable and let civility stop them from being the fanatics they feel they need to be.

And then people walk into the polling booths, wondering: "Do I love my country? Am I a "real" American or just a Democrat? One vote can't hurt....can it? I mean it's only for four years, I'm just doing my job and following orders, why should I care about "them" anyway. there not even human: Let's Make America Great Again."

Fascism: tell me its not that easy? ;)
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
I have to admit that I cringe every time I hear someone make a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis. But that's probably just because I've heard it used so many times that it naturally hits the ear as a tired and irritating old reference.

There's very good reasons why the west seems to bring up Hitler and the Nazis almost constantly. I remember long, extended sessions of time teachers in grade school would allocate to educating us and discussing the horrors of the Nazi regime. I've even found myself drawing conclusions that could be applied to various historical figures, but Hitler and the Nazis just seems to make more sense; a product of my environment I suppose.

The reason that the west seems so mesmerized by the Nazi narrative while paying significantly less attention to other historical atrocities is that our culture -- western culture -- were pups of the same litter as the Germans and we continue to be culturally similar today. What happened from the 1920s to the end of WW2 was that western civilization had began to turn on itself as the old imperialism started to decay and that the sanctions two western nations (Britain & France) placed on another western nation (Germany), thereby creating a monstrous mutant western nation (Nazi Germany). It's important to learn from history so that it isn't repeated; the west is still a culture that contains elements which resonate with recent generations causing us to be at risk of tumbling down a similar road should a similar crisis arise in a western nation. That's why Hitler and the Nazi's seem to get significantly more airtime in people's political discussions than Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, that African dude who was a king or something who used to personally butcher random people with a machete and drink their victim's blood off the machete, Ivan the Impaler, etc.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Ignore the lessons of history and you're likely to repeat them. Human psychology is what it is. Why would we think we were different?

The evolution of the Third Reich, and other totalitarian regimes, is an important lesson in political psychology. People refer to Germany because it was a modern, industrial civilization like our own, and because similar social and economic pressures may be expected to produce similar results, as can similar strategies by political demagogues.

In the '30s America moved to the left. Germany, Spain and Italy, to the right.
American 'socialism' produced 50 years of prosperity. Europe's Fascism produced a bubble of prosperity, then a repressive, militarised police state and war.

There was nothing remarkable about Hitler or the German psyche. Dismiss the lessons of the 1930s and there's nothing preventing their being repeated here.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Ignore the lessons of history and you're likely to repeat them. Human psychology is what it is. Why would we think we were different?

The evolution of the Third Reich, and other totalitarian regimes, is an important lesson in political psychology. People refer to Germany because it was a modern, industrial civilization like our own, and because similar social and economic pressures may be expected to produce similar results, as can similar strategies by political demagogues.

In the '30s America moved to the left. Germany, Spain and Italy, to the right.
American 'socialism' produced 50 years of prosperity. Europe's Fascism produced a bubble of prosperity, then a repressive, militarised police state and war.

There was nothing remarkable about Hitler or the German psyche. Dismiss the lessons of the 1930s and there's nothing preventing their being repeated here.

I'm not saying the history of Nazi Germany should be dismissed; rather, what I'm saying is that comparisons to Hitler shouldn't be made as readily as a lot of people seem to make them. There are people in our modern times who are comparable to Hitler in terms of their prejudice, beliefs, and hatred, but a lot of the comparisons to Nazism and Hitler are just hyperbolic and blown out of proportion. There is a difference between dismissing history and being opposed to casually using it as a crutch to support one's arguments.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
Trump isn't the problem - it's the fervor that gets riled up because of things he says.
I seriously had a conversation with someone yesterday who took the idea of barring Muslim immigration and turned it into "getting rid of all of them that are here because they just want an American Caliphate anyway." He wasn't kidding at all. He literally suggested we round up all the Muslims and get them out of the country.... He followed that up by saying that it wasn't about hate; that it was about love for his fellow Americans....
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Trump has none of the charisma that Hitler displayed, that enabled him to lead people to their distruction.
However he displays the same sort of prejudices and nastiness from his core.
perhaps it is helpful to have that attitude in business.

He may not have charisma but he has $$$ and fame which in America is more important. lol

There is a large percentage of people (usually low income) who seem to put the wealthy on a pedestal. Ironically it is often the same people who see educated people as elitist. Odd dynamic.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Trump isn't the problem - it's the fervor that gets riled up because of things he says.
I seriously had a conversation with someone yesterday who took the idea of barring Muslim immigration and turned it into "getting rid of all of them that are here because they just want an American Caliphate anyway." He wasn't kidding at all. He literally suggested we round up all the Muslims and get them out of the country.... He followed that up by saying that it wasn't about hate; that it was about love for his fellow Americans....

That opinion is not so fringe these days. I cringe every time I open facebook because dozens of people are posting garbage about getting rid of muslims.

I don't know about comparing individuals to hitler. I don't know enough about the man to make that claim. But the country is headed in a seriously dangerous direction. People I have thought reasonable are jumping on the anti-muslim bandwagon.
 
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