Nazism Is Not a Political Trump Card

[jonathan180iq]

That opinion is not so fringe these days. I cringe every time I open facebook because dozens of people are posting garbage about getting rid of muslims.

I don't know about comparing individuals to hitler. I don't know enough about the man to make that claim. But the country is headed in a seriously dangerous direction. People I have thought reasonable are jumping on the anti-muslim bandwagon.

Yup. It's really disgusting to see how rarely people use logic or reason when posting anything at all... And all that anti-Islamic propaganda simply feeds into the collective mindset that "Muslim=Terrorist".

I like to ask those idiots how many Muslims live in their own communities. I then follow that up by asking them to post or cite any instance where those Muslims who live in their community have done anything negative at all. Most times they have no idea how large their local Muslim population is...or they retreat back into the hole of saying "Well, you just never know when they're going to do something, or what they're planning." At which point I turn it into a conversation about "the blacks" and watch them back pedal on the very same logic they just used for Islam... It's oodles of fun.

 

[Underhill]

Yup. It's really disgusting to see how rarely people use logic or reason when posting anything at all... And all that anti-Islamic propaganda simply feeds into the collective mindset that "Muslim=Terrorist".

I like to ask those idiots how many Muslims live in their own communities. I then follow that up by asking them to post or cite any instance where those Muslims who live in their community have done anything negative at all. Most times they have no idea how large their local Muslim population is...or they retreat back into the hole of saying "Well, you just never know when they're going to do something, or what they're planning." At which point I turn it into a conversation about "the blacks" and watch them back pedal on the very same logic they just used for Islam... It's oodles of fun.

Sounds it.

I used to try to set people straight. But for the most part I have given up. The last time I had a facebook discussion on this stuff, I made 3 or 4 well reasoned post and the guy started tearing me up with vile insults and idiocy. There is no reasoning with most of them.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

With such a low proportion of Muslims living in the USA. there must be a vast number of localities who never even see one.
The UK has roughly twice the percentage of Muslims, but they are heavily concentrated in particular areas so that some districts have a majority of Muslims.
Muslim attacks apart from the twin towers seem to be an almost non event in the USA. This latest is almost unique of its type. I find it hard to understand why the Americans are so paranoid about it.
They show none of that paranoia about the nearly daily reports mass shootings.

 

[Underhill]

With such a low proportion of Muslims living in the USA. there must be a vast number of localities who never even see one.
The UK has roughly twice the percentage of Muslims, but they are heavily concentrated in particular areas so that some districts have a majority of Muslims.
Muslim attacks apart from the twin towers seem to be an almost non event in the USA. This latest is almost unique of its type. I find it hard to understand why the Americans are so paranoid about it.
They show none of that paranoia about the nearly daily reports mass shootings.

3 reasons. Fox News, the NRA and politicians... all of whom blow every attack way out of proportion to stir up their viewers/members/voters. They do it to drum up ad revenue/new members/votes.

 

[Revoltingest]

With such a low proportion of Muslims living in the USA. there must be a vast number of localities who never even see one.
The UK has roughly twice the percentage of Muslims, but they are heavily concentrated in particular areas so that some districts have a majority of Muslims.
Muslim attacks apart from the twin towers seem to be an almost non event in the USA. This latest is almost unique of its type. I find it hard to understand why the Americans are so paranoid about it.
They show none of that paranoia about the nearly daily reports mass shootings.

Paranoia is government's job.
No one I know IRL is worried about terrorism....except those who might travel to Europistan.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Sounds it.

I used to try to set people straight. But for the most part I have given up. The last time I had a facebook discussion on this stuff, I made 3 or 4 well reasoned post and the guy started tearing me up with vile insults and idiocy. There is no reasoning with most of them.

Agreed - it's only certain people that I'll engage with... Or just the easy targets, who I simply hope one day will digest some of the conversation and do something with it.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Please, just remember that whoever you are comparing to Hitler has probably never killed as many people as Hitler did, and probably never will.

Devil's advocate: How many people did Hitler kill personally? By his own hands so to speak? I think I've only known him to go so far as to make orders and, at worst, enjoy watching a recorded execution repeatedly.

I read an anecdote somewhere about Himmler visiting concentration camps and turning green and vomiting when he would see one of his soldiers carry out an order to slaughter a group of people in front of him. He would then steady himself, wipe all the fluids pouring from his face, then go on some rhetorical rant about how important is for a good Nazi to be mentally strong as well as physically strong; as his soldiers' ability to kill a bunch of defenceless people was an exercise of such strength.

Dark but kind of amusing stuff about one of Hitler's henchmen. It kind of sums up the mentality of the regime: a small group of soft, weedy, cowardly pricks who capitalized bigtime on the lives of all the Germans who suffered through the German '20s and the Depression and were willing to do anything to improve the lives of their families. The personal insecurities and pathological grudges that most of these little men held and the amount of power they had at some point was like some kind of circus.

Jung's attempt to explain Hitler was something along the lines of: you could never talk to Adolf Hitler the person because he didn't exist; there is nobody there except for an entire nation.

 

[Underhill]

Devil's advocate: How many people did Hitler kill personally? By his own hands so to speak? I think I've only known him to go so far as to make orders and, at worst, enjoy watching a recorded execution repeatedly.

I read an anecdote somewhere about Himmler visiting concentration camps and turning green and vomiting when he would see one of his soldiers carry out an order to slaughter a group of people in front of him. He would then steady himself, wipe all the fluids pouring from his face, then go on some rhetorical rant about how important is for a good Nazi to be mentally strong as well as physically strong; as his soldiers' ability to kill a bunch of defenceless people was an exercise of such strength.

Dark but kind of amusing stuff about one of Hitler's henchmen. It kind of sums up the mentality of the regime: a small group of soft, weedy, cowardly pricks who capitalized bigtime on the lives of all the Germans who suffered through the German '20s and the Depression and were willing to do anything to improve the lives of their families. The personal insecurities and pathological grudges that most of these little men held and the amount of power they had at some point was like some kind of circus.

Jung's attempt to explain Hitler was something along the lines of: you could never talk to Adolf Hitler the person because he didn't exist; there is nobody there except for an entire nation.

I think that is generally true with most modern leaders who commit these heinous acts. We get this image from the telly of the baddy personally pulling the trigger, but usually the guy making the decision is disconnected from the act itself.

 

[Nietzsche]

Devil's advocate: How many people did Hitler kill personally? By his own hands so to speak? I think I've only known him to go so far as to make orders and, at worst, enjoy watching a recorded execution repeatedly.

You talking about the executions of the Valkyrie Plotters?

Dark but kind of amusing stuff about one of Hitler's henchmen. It kind of sums up the mentality of the regime: a small group of soft, weedy, cowardly pricks

Ehhh. Himmler was a coward, so was Ribbentrop. But the rest of them? They were lots of horrible things, but cowardice isn't one of them. Hitler served in the trenches, Goering was a fighter-ace during a time before parachutes were given to pilots, Rosenberg participated in the Russian Civil War, Rudolf Hess was another soldier during WW1.

During the period of nigh-anarchy in Bavaria through the 20s and early 30s, the paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party(the Sturmabteilung, lead by Rohm and later Goering) many of the people who'd become key figures in the Third Reich were involved in armed confrontations against armed Communists and and other Leftists. Goering himself was shot during a confrontation(and is what lead to his eventual morphine addiction). Hess was wounded as well. Hitler would regularly be in the very front, putting himself directly in harms' way.

So, yeah. Wretched scum, but cowards? No. Himmler is something of an exception rather than the rule.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

More times than I can count, I have heard and read arguments comparing people and stances that someone finds objectionable or offensive to Hitler and Nazism. Most recently, I have seen this comparison made between Donald Trump and Hitler.

Now, I do agree that Trump is a horrible person, as are a lot of other people, and I agree that certain ideologies are horrible as well. However, I wouldn't compare most of them to Hitler or Nazism, respectively. I think the comparisons to Hitler and Nazism get thrown around way too casually, carelessly, and irresponsibly by some people. Few figures in human history have caused as much suffering to as many people as Hitler and the Nazis did. The Nazis killed disabled people, burned Jews alive, and built concentration camps where horrifying, indescribable pain was inflicted upon the captives.

I just find it tasteless and downright irresponsible when someone casually uses the gruesome crimes of Nazis and the reprehensible character of Hitler as trump cards in political or religious debates. Please, just remember that whoever you are comparing to Hitler has probably never killed as many people as Hitler did, and probably never will.

Trump is a little more left leaning with progressive taxes etc than much of the rest of the GOP field, but comparing him to the German national socialist party is clearly inappropriate.

 

[Valjean]

and Hitler loved dogs and children, gave the German people the Autobahn and the Volkswagen, and promoted vegetarianism.
It's an ill wind...

I like Trump's stand on corruption and foreign entanglements, but he's an unprincipled demagogue. Therein is my objection.

 

[Revoltingest]

and Hitler loved dogs and children, gave the German people the Autobahn and the Volkswagen, and promoted vegetarianism.
It's an ill wind...

I like Trump's stand on corruption and foreign entanglements, but he's an unprincipled demagogue. Therein is my objection.

Actually, you're making a compelling argument that he's a principaled demagogue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Trump is a little more left leaning with progressive taxes etc than much of the rest of the GOP field, but comparing him to the German national socialist party is clearly inappropriate.

Aye, he's not likely to get many libertarian votes.
I'd expect him to do well with Democrats, being more likable than Hillary.
Of course, opinions will vary on this.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

You talking about the executions of the Valkyrie Plotters?


Ehhh. Himmler was a coward, so was Ribbentrop. But the rest of them? They were lots of horrible things, but cowardice isn't one of them. Hitler served in the trenches, Goering was a fighter-ace during a time before parachutes were given to pilots, Rosenberg participated in the Russian Civil War, Rudolf Hess was another soldier during WW1.

During the period of nigh-anarchy in Bavaria through the 20s and early 30s, the paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party(the Sturmabteilung, lead by Rohm and later Goering) many of the people who'd become key figures in the Third Reich were involved in armed confrontations against armed Communists and and other Leftists. Goering himself was shot during a confrontation(and is what lead to his eventual morphine addiction). Hess was wounded as well. Hitler would regularly be in the very front, putting himself directly in harms' way.

So, yeah. Wretched scum, but cowards? No. Himmler is something of an exception rather than the rule.

Lol, fair enough. Those were intense times were everyone in that half of the century. I just had in mind this image of Hitler and Goebbels in particular marching through the armies in Nuremberg and noticing what weedy creeps they were with such a bizarre stranglehold over an entire nation. And you can't deny Hitler's personal weirdness in accounts about his personal life and the effects that it had on the people close to him. Ironically, everyone out of those characters except baby face were relatively lap dogs to Hitler too; I can't even begin to imagine what sort of twisted psychologies resulted out of that hierarchy. Such a remarkable phenomenon.

And I wasn't necessarily referring to the Valkyrie Plotters; just an anecdote I read in a text somewhere.

 

[Adramelek]

Donald Trump, Chaos Magickian, a master at disrupting the natural order of the political establishment, who commands the press whether negative or positive.

Trump for President!​

 

[Revoltingest]

He could be over in the Staring Contest thread!