Near Death experiences and the scientific method.

[gnostic]

You want evidence and I give it. Good for most people at least to consider. What is your evidence the brain creates the person.

You haven’t given any evidence.

You have posted some videos of people making claims.

Claims don’t count as evidence, Lekatt.

People make claims of being abducted by aliens. They are just claims, their claims are not evidence.

Likewise, NDE make claims of spirits, seeing light, etc. they are just claims, not evidence.

 

[Lekatt]

You haven’t given any evidence.

You have posted some videos of people making claims.

Claims don’t count as evidence, Lekatt.

People make claims of being abducted by aliens. They are just claims, their claims are not evidence.

Likewise, NDE make claims of spirits, seeing light, etc. they are just claims, not evidence.

What is your evidence the brain creates the person.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You want evidence and I give it. Good for most people at least to consider

The problem is that what you consider evidence are just claims.
And most of your arguments are logical fallacies.

. What is your evidence the brain creates the person.

The evidence that the brain "creates the person" as you put it, were given many times over. You've just ignored them.

When our brains are damaged our minds can become damaged and our personalities can change. We shouldn't expect that if what you are saying is true. And yet it happens.
Our memories are stored in our brains via the hippocampus and its accompanying pathways. You have claimed this can't be true. And yet it is.
Our emotional states can be mapped and measured in the brain. You claim this doesn't happen. And yet it happens.
Our brain can fill in the gaps in our blind spot so that we don't even know we aren't actually seeing anything in that area of our field of vision. You claim this doesn't happen. And yet it does.

You've failed to address these numerous times now. Because you're cherry picking the things that agree with your beliefs and dismissing those that don't agree with your beliefs.

 

[Lekatt]

The problem is that what you consider evidence are just claims.
And most of your arguments are logical fallacies.



The evidence that the brain "creates the person" as you put it, were given many times over. You've just ignored them.

When our brains are damaged our minds can become damaged and our personalities can change. We shouldn't expect that if what you are saying is true. And yet it happens.
Our memories are stored in our brains via the hippocampus and its accompanying pathways. You have claimed this can't be true. And yet it is.
Our emotional states can be mapped and measured in the brain. You claim this doesn't happen. And yet it happens.
Our brain can fill in the gaps in our blind spot so that we don't even know we aren't actually seeing anything in that area of our field of vision. You claim this doesn't happen. And yet it does.

You've failed to address these numerous times now. Because you're cherry picking the things that agree with your beliefs and dismissing those that don't agree with your beliefs.

All that can be explained in a different way, such as the TV example. There is no storage of memory ever found in the brain. The brain is not a computer only an interface to the spirit. Millions of experiencers will tell you that. How do you explain Savants. How do you explain identical twins totally different personalities. There seems to be a need to believe in the brain in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. I know people tend to fear death and some fear the religious teaching of Hell. But there is nothing to fear. Believers, nonbelievers, kind people or hateful people all go to the same place from which they came --the Spirit World. There is no hell, no judgment, or no punishment. This is a learning and growing situation filled with Love and Caring. Nothing, no nothing to fear.

 

[gnostic]

What is your evidence the brain creates the person.

What do you mean “create”?

 

[gnostic]

All that can be explained in a different way, such as the TV example. There is no storage of memory ever found in the brain.

Brains aren’t tv.

Using tv analogy is faulty.

Plus, tv do have memory or storage unit, especially smart tv.

Sure, many older tv don’t have internal storage, but Android tv can record and store and playback recorded contents, as well as storing images and audio.

But tv aren’t brains. Nor are computers.

Try comparing human brains with other animals, like chimpanzees, or your pet dog or cat. They have memories. Their memories are controlled by any spirit.

Second, you have shown a single evidence that spirit exist. Until you present such evidence, your claims about spirits are nothing more than just your personal belief.

Third, as others have already explained to you, including more recently @SkepticThinker , brains can alter its memory and behavior, through the effects of chemical stimuli (eg medical treatments or illegal drugs), illnesses or diseases (eg Alzheimer’s, strokes) or disorders (eg schizophrenia), head trauma (eg brain damage, strokes).

If Alzheimer’s patients suffer from memory losses, does that mean it is the spirit that actually suffering from Alzheimer’s?

If spirits exist as you believe, then they should be immune change in brain functions, so a person should not have memory losses or changes in personality, if a person suffered from stroke or Alzheimer’s.

You are not thinking logically. You are allowing your personal belief and pride to cloud your judgement, compounding errors you have made since you’ve joined this topic.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So you confirm that atheists reject the belief in the reality represented by the concept of God/s.

He confirms that atheists don't believe the claim that god(s) exist(s)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ok, let's clear this up, yes or no, do you believe or disbelieve in the existence of a reality represented by the concept of God?

Yes, let's clear this up.

Theist: "There is a god! Do you believe this claim?"
Atheist: "no".


That's it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

A lot of today's accepted science will certainly one day be shown to be pseudoscience

This sentence tells me that you don't even know what pseudo-science is.

For example, when Einstein showed how Newton was wrong about gravity, newtonian gravity didn't suddenly become "pseudo-science".

Remember humanity is still evolving, and I know it is not pc, but not evenly, some are more evolved than others as we speak.

No.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, let's clear this up.

Theist: "There is a god! Do you believe this claim?"
Atheist: "no".

That's it.

Ben says "There is a reality represented by the concept God, that reality is all that exists".

TagliatelliMonster says.....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, and I can't demonstrate and verify what I had for breakfast

Dude, we are sometimes even capable of saying what some animal had for breakfast 10.000 years ago upon finding his remains.

, or how long I workout at the gym

We can track your cell phone through the gps chip and see how long you were on that location.
We can look at the parking app if you use one to see how long your car was parked in front of the gym.
We can look at the gym records, if it's one of those place where you batch with a membership card.
We can look at the security cam footage of the gym to see when you show up and when you disappear.
We can look at traffic cams, if angled okay, to see when you entered and when you left.
We can go to the gym and ask people if and when they say you.

We can do all kinds of such things and then put all that data side by side and literally reconstruct your time at the gym.

I guess I just can't prove millions of things I do and experience every day. Oh Shushs.

Here's the thing.... going to the gym is something that can be verified at least in principle. See the list above for a few examples on how it could be done.

When it comes to magical "spiritual" claims however... those can't even be verified on principle.
They are indistinguishable from sheer imagination.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you prove what you saw on TV, or what yesterday's sunset was like, no. You either trust the person who tells you about it or you don't. Most of the people is the world believe there is an afterlife. I know there is one, I been there.

People watch tv every day.
Sunsets occur every day.

These are mundane claims with gazibillions of demonstrable precedents.
To pretend that such claims are on par with extra-ordinary claims of magic, is quite ludicrous.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Data is stored on the Hard Drive or Memory Chips in the computer, and I look at it all the time.

Take your harddrive out of your pc and show me were the data is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you show me the reports you are using to draw that conclusion? Do you think all the information we gather, evaluate and retain is in some sort of spiritual cloud?

MSFT SpiritDrive!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The same way a damaged TV will forget its programs.

The TV Spirit can no longer properly set the programs due to the hardware damage?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The brain is an interface between us and the body. No we are not our bodies. We wear bodies in order to live and maneuver in the physical realms. We are pure energy. In our intrinsic form we can not be seen or heard in the physical. Most people call this the Spirit. You could call it the Soul, Vitality, or many other names. Most of the people living in this world believe in their spiritual form and that there is an afterlife. Only a small percentage don't. A small percentage of people still believe the world is flat also.

That's a whole bunch of assertions.
Do you also have the tiniest speck of verifiable evidence in support of any of these?

If not, then what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The person who experiences the NDE knows

The person who saw bigfoot knows.
The person who saw Elvis or Michael Jackson or 2Pac knows.
The person who was abducted by aliens knows.
The person who achieved the status of Operating Thetan in scientology knows.


In reality, none of these people know. Instead, they all believe.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sure you are claiming that the brain is us, now prove.

All evidence supports that.
No evidence supports your supernatural shenannigans.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When you buy a can of beans, do you need to have a forensic test done to see if it is really beans?

You could if you had to or wanted to.

 

[Lekatt]

The person who saw bigfoot knows.
The person who saw Elvis or Michael Jackson or 2Pac knows.
The person who was abducted by aliens knows.
The person who achieved the status of Operating Thetan in scientology knows.


In reality, none of these people know. Instead, they all believe.

How do you know whether they know or not, were you there, or are you just guessing as usual.