Netherlands may ban religious animal slaughter

[Wandered Off]

One of Europe's first countries to allow Jews to practice their religion openly may soon pass a law banning centuries-old Jewish and Muslim traditions on the ritual slaughter of animals.

In the Netherlands, an unlikely alliance of an animal rights party and the xenophobic Freedom Party is spearheading support for the ban on kosher and halal slaughter methods that critics say inflict unacceptable suffering on animals.

The far right's embrace of the bill, which is expected to go to a parliamentary vote this month, is based mostly on its strident hostility toward the Dutch Muslim population. The Party of the Animals, the world's first such party to be elected to parliament, says humane treatment of animals trumps traditions of tolerance.

Jewish and Muslim groups call the initiative an affront to freedom of religion.

"I can speak for the Dutch Jewish Community and I think for the wider Jewish world, that this law raises grave concerns about infringements on religious freedom," said Ruben Vis, spokesman for the Netherlands' CJO, an umbrella of Jewish organizations.

Abdulfatteh Ali-Salah, director of Halal Correct, a certification body for Dutch halal meat, said he felt the debate made Muslims in the Netherlands feel Dutch society is more interested in animal welfare than fair treatment of its Muslim citizens.

"If the law goes through now there's nothing else to do but protest," he said. "And that's what we'll do."

As in most western countries, Dutch law dictates that butchers must stun livestock — render it unconscious — before it can be slaughtered, to minimize the animals' pain and fear. But an exception is made for meat that must be prepared under ancient Jewish and Muslim dietary laws and practices. These demand that animals be slaughtered while still awake, by swiftly cutting the main arteries of their necks with razor-sharp knives.

Dutch consider banning religious animal slaughter - Yahoo! News


Interesting issues raised. Which is more important: Human religious freedom or animal rights?

 

[*Anne*]

Ugh.

I support religious freedom, however the suffering of helpless animals haunts me.

 

[Revasser]

Seems fair enough to me, actually.

I don't see why religious preference for a certain method of slaughter should exempt some from having to practice more humane methods which are, for everybody else, the law of the land.

 

[HonestJoe]

Interesting issues raised. Which is more important: Human religious freedom or animal rights?

I think that's an entirely unhelpful question. Religious freedom can range from the right to wear a small cross under your shirt through to the right to sacrifice a newborn baby to the volcano god every full moon. Animal rights are similar varied, significantly here in between the right to be slaughtered in a "humane" manner and the right not to be slaughtered at all.

There are clearly a number of other issues going on here though. It seem to be widely accepted (maybe even by themselves) that the Dutch Freedom Party is anti-Muslim and that their support of this change is about that and little or nothing to do with animal welfare. The animal welfare supporters seem happy to ignore or support the anti-Islam angle to further their own aims (and it'd be interesting to know how far they want to go).

There are also practical issues briefly raised in the article. If a ban were imposed, would it really improve animal rights or would the same methods continue, hidden or abroad, with much less control and regulation? The true difference between various methods of slaughter still don't seem to have been clearly resolved anyway (too much bias from all directions in that I fear).

 

[Penumbra]

Dutch consider banning religious animal slaughter - Yahoo! News

Interesting issues raised. Which is more important: Human religious freedom or animal rights?

If they are serious about the suffering of food animals, they should ban factory farming altogether, and hold farms to a much higher standard of care.

 

[Levite]

This is entirely specious and utterly xenophobic. Part of the entire point of shechitah (kosher slaughter) is to minimize suffering to the animal. The cut is made with a single stroke, in such a way that the blood loss from the transection of the major arteries, and the natural drain of blood away from the brain, kill the animal within about thirty seconds. If the death takes longer than about thirty seconds, the meat is deemed unkosher, and cannot be consumed by Jews.

There is little sense in supposing that the trauma of stunning the animal and then killing it in any of the usual fashions-- not to mention the tendency of some factory meat producers to begin butchering before the animal is completely dead-- is measurably less than the trauma of shechitah.

This is simply one more case of ignorance and anti-Semitism coming together for a little more persecution.

I don't know anything about the techniques of halal slaughter, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that their techniques are similarly motivated in part by a desire to minimize the suffering of the animal. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief in the Western World, Muslim ethics in such areas can be quite sensitive.

Uch, what a disgusting turn of events in a country that used to be famous for its tolerance and open-mindedness....

 

[Penumbra]

This is entirely specious and utterly xenophobic. Part of the entire point of shechitah (kosher slaughter) is to minimize suffering to the animal. The cut is made with a single stroke, in such a way that the blood loss from the transection of the major arteries, and the natural drain of blood away from the brain, kill the animal within about thirty seconds. If the death takes longer than about thirty seconds, the meat is deemed unkosher, and cannot be consumed by Jews.

There is little sense in supposing that the trauma of stunning the animal and then killing it in any of the usual fashions-- not to mention the tendency of some factory meat producers to begin butchering before the animal is completely dead-- is measurably less than the trauma of shechitah.

This is simply one more case of ignorance and anti-Semitism coming together for a little more persecution.

I don't know anything about the techniques of halal slaughter, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that their techniques are similarly motivated in part by a desire to minimize the suffering of the animal. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief in the Western World, Muslim ethics in such areas can be quite sensitive.

Uch, what a disgusting turn of events in a country that used to be famous for its tolerance and open-mindedness....

Hypothetically, if it could be demonstrated that a method exists to consistently kill an animal in significantly less than 30 seconds, or to knock an animal out swiftly such that they feel either no pain, or pain for significantly less than 30 seconds, and are then killed when unconscious, but that this method completely violates kosher slaughter, would you be in favor of switching?

Or, despite the hypothetical evidence, would you rather continue cutting the animal's neck and ensuring that it dies within 30 seconds due to blood drainage?

Basically, what I'm getting at, is whether there is even openness for debate here. Is it really about minimizing suffering, or is it about tradition (even if the tradition itself was originally meant to reduce suffering)?

Because if it really is completely about reducing the suffering of food animals for those that decide to eat them, then those who practice kosher slaughter should be open to all possible suggestions on how to kill an animal as swiftly and painlessly as possible, and should be willing to switch to the method that is demonstrated to be the swiftest, most painless, and most consistent. If, instead, it's about tradition, even if it leads to the possibility of not killing the animal in the swiftest, most painless, and most consistent way possible, and not even being open for debate on the issue to find the best method, then I'd seriously question those that would support such a thing.

 

[darkendless]

This is simply one more case of ignorance and anti-Semitism coming together for a little more persecution.

Tolerance and open-mindedness means not tolerating barbaric religious practices. Is your method of slaughtering necessary? Is it critical to your survival that an animal be slaughtered a certain way or is it just a tradition? Can you prove that your slaughtering method is any better than factory-meat farming methods?

 

[Madhuri]

To me, this quote:

"said he felt the debate made Muslims in the Netherlands feel Dutch society is more interested in animal welfare than fair treatment of its Muslim citizens."

...is as ridiculous as if he had said:

"said he felt the debate made Muslims in the Netherlands feel Dutch society is more interested in human welfare than fair treatment of its Muslim citizens."

But I agree with Penumbra, something should be done everywhere about factory farming.

 

[darkendless]

To me, this quote:

"said he felt the debate made Muslims in the Netherlands feel Dutch society is more interested in animal welfare than fair treatment of its Muslim citizens."

...is as ridiculous as if he had said:

"said he felt the debate made Muslims in the Netherlands feel Dutch society is more interested in human welfare than fair treatment of its Muslim citizens."

But I agree with Penumbra, something should be done everywhere about factory farming.

The problem with that is people like me who couldn't care less where I meat comes from will be upset with rising prices.

Something that upsets me in Australia is that most fast food places serve Halal products now. All Pizza Hut meat is Halal.

 

[Madhuri]

The problem with that is people like me who couldn't care less where I meat comes from will be upset with rising prices.

Something that upsets me in Australia is that most fast food places serve Halal products now. All Pizza Hut meat is Halal.

Maybe rising meat costs will reduced the general intake of meat and improve the overall health of our society.
Cut suffering and disease- it's two birds with one stone. Sounds good to me

 

[darkendless]

Maybe rising meat costs will reduced the general intake of meat and improve the overall health of our society.
Cut suffering and disease- it's two birds with one stone. Sounds good to me

I guess but wishful thinking on your part

Us Aussies whinge and moan instead of seeing the associated benefits. Remember when the cigarette prices went up?

 

[*Anne*]

I think everyone should check out at least one undercover video from a factory farm.

I don't expect the entire world to go vegetarian, but I do think the average person would be horrified by what goes on with these animals. If the neglect and abuse doesn't sicken you, the concern for your own health should motivate you to beat the drum for more humane practices.

 

[darkendless]

I think everyone should check out at least one undercover video from a factory farm.

I don't expect the entire world to go vegetarian, but I do think the average person would be horrified by what goes on with these animals. If the neglect and abuse doesn't sicken you, the concern for your own health should motivate you to beat the drum for more humane practices.

My diet doesn't allow me to indulge all that often in meat.

However I know what you mean and it sickens me to the core how disdainfully we treat living things. Then again since the birth of major religions and before we've been taught that humans are better than everything else. Perhaps we should factory farm humans and see how people react?

 

[Madhuri]

My diet doesn't allow me to indulge all that often in meat.

However I know what you mean and it sickens me to the core how disdainfully we treat living things. Then again since the birth of major religions and before we've been taught that humans are better than everything else. Perhaps we should factory farm humans and see how people react?

True, although humans have thought that anyway. In fact, part of this mentality comes from the ancient Greek philosophers who felt that animals had no sentience and could be treated in whatever manner we humans wished.

It is mostly a Western/European mentality, there is much more respect of animals in the Eastern philosophies (not including China...).

 

[*Anne*]

Don't watch Earthlings then! It's nickname "The Vegan Maker" is well earned! I cried through the part I was able to watch, then I had to switch to listening only, as it was the only way I was going to make it through the whole movie.

Granted, I'm a softie. I think, however, even the toughest carnivore out there would be left thinking, "There has to be a better way."

 

[Madhuri]

I've only watched trailers for earthlings. I know I couldn't sit through it. I'm someone who tears up with utter sadness just seeing the trucks that transport the animals to slaughterhouses. Watching that documentary would traumatise me for life.

 

[darkendless]

I've only watched trailers for earthlings. I know I couldn't sit through it. I'm someone who tears up with utter sadness just seeing the trucks that transport the animals to slaughterhouses. Watching that documentary would traumatise me for life.

I'd be the same i think.

I'm happier in my ignorance of the truth with this one.

 

[Madhuri]

I'd be the same i think.

I'm happier in my ignorance of the truth with this one.

Ignorance is bliss

But ignorance is also the cause of all great suffering

 

[*Anne*]

I've only watched trailers for earthlings. I know I couldn't sit through it. I'm someone who tears up with utter sadness just seeing the trucks that transport the animals to slaughterhouses. Watching that documentary would traumatise me for life.

You're smarter than I am. Some scenes are still in my head over a year later.