New American Proposal to Seize Russian Oligarchs' Assets

[Subduction Zone]

In these cases there is no victim or actual crime. Are you against this if there are actual victims and actual crimes? Let's say there is a rich drug dealer who does a drive by shooting and a child is shot and injured, are you opposed to law enforcement taking his money to cover medical costs and for pain and suffering?

The oligarchs are not exactly the Russian government. Though they probably all support Putin. I see two ways out of this moral dilemma. Demonstrate that a good 90% of the oligarchs support Putin. Or, donate all confiscated cash to me. Either way we are good.

 

[F1fan]

I would need to read more about this in order to determine how much (if any) of it to believe. I don't think it's impossible for Zelenskyy to have some skeletons in the closest like many politicians do, but there's so much propaganda and smearing targeting him nowadays in particular.

I think the tendency of some Putin supporters to use unpleasant information (whether accurate or not) about Zelenskyy to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine is one of the main reasons many people become dismissive or defensive when such allegations are brought up about him. For better or worse, many people are unable to consider a politician's personal integrity and ethics in isolation of said politician's political views (e.g., whether they're right about the motives behind a foreign invasion of their country).

Well Zelenskyy has only been in politics for 3 years, and was elected on a sort of fluke. I have to imagine there is a way of doing politics in Ukraine that any new and ethical official will have to adopt to some degree in order to keep the government functioning. I've seen many interviews with Ukraine members of the government and I've been impressed by their youth and highly competent thinking. I find myself wishing these were American politicians.

So I suspect the big picture is what we need to focus on and not just some negative issues here and there.

 

[sun rise]

In these cases there is no victim or actual crime. Are you against this if there are actual victims and actual crimes? Let's say there is a rich drug dealer who does a drive by shooting and a child is shot and injured, are you opposed to law enforcement taking his money to cover medical costs and for pain and suffering?

No. I was thinking of cases where cops seized people's goods and refused to return them when they were not charged with a crime or found innocent.

 

[F1fan]

The oligarchs are not exactly the Russian government. Though they probably all support Putin. I see two ways out of this moral dilemma. Demonstrate that a good 90% of the oligarchs support Putin. Or, donate all confiscated cash to me. Either way we are good.

The reporting I have heard is that the vast majority of current oligarchs are what they are because they are allied with Putin and corrupt business practices. In essence they made their money by being involved with Putin and business. I think a fair comparison is all the republicans who are still tied to trump and his political influence, and keep defending trump despite facts to the contrary.

 

[F1fan]

No. I was thinking of cases where cops seized people's goods and refused to return them when they were not charged with a crime or found innocent.

I agree with this, but the circumstances involving the Russian oligarchs is that they are directly linked to Putin, Russia, and and even the war. To quote Mike Ehrmantraut "They're in the game."

 

[Subduction Zone]

The reporting I have heard is that the vast majority of current oligarchs are what they are because they are allied with Putin and corrupt business practices. In essence they made their money by being involved with Putin and business. I think a fair comparison is all the republicans who are still tied to trump and his political influence, and keep defending trump despite facts to the contrary.

Dang it! There go my plans for acquiring massive wealth.

 

[Revoltingest]

Does government have to be a blunt instrument?

It's inherent to having the few govern the many.

Do you think they couldn't be more nuanced in their approach if they wished to be?

We could always assume that government
could be better. But it is what it is.

"Collateral damage"... that phrase kinda brings up flashbacks of American politicians and public figures brushing aside the results of drone strikes and bombing of overseas countries.

It also applies to economic sanctions.

I'm waiting to see. Not holding my breath for the U.S. government to be a beacon of international justice, though. I'd love to be proven wrong and pleasantly surprised.

I understand your disappointment in US government.
Nothing I can do about that. I only advocate that it
continue economic sanctions against Russia, & that
it continue providing materiel to Ukraine for defense.

 

[sun rise]

I only advocate that it
continue economic sanctions against Russia, & that
it continue providing materiel to Ukraine for defense.

And perhaps a wee bit of schadenfreude at Russian losses?

 

[Revoltingest]

And perhaps a wee bit of schadenfreude at Russian losses?

That's not something I advocate for....I just enjoy it.
Eat death, invaders!

 

[F1fan]

Dang it! There go my plans for acquiring massive wealth.

What's going on, is your trust fund cut off?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What's going on, is your trust fund cut off?

Not to worry. I invested $2.00 into the Powerball. That should take care of things.

 

[RestlessSoul]

In the U.K., the government has frozen the assets of Russian Oligarch Roman Abramovich, which happens to include Chelsea football club. Meanwhile, KGB director’s son Sergei Lebedev, a personal friend of Prime Minister Boris Johnson, retains his 63% stake in right leaning newspaper, The London Evening Standard (until recently edited by former Conservative Minister, and personal friend of Boris Johnson, one George Osborne).

I trust the US authorities to demonstrate a similar level of impartiality and integrity when exercising similar powers with regards to foreign assets.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The U.S. is in the process of implementing new measures to seize and sell the property of Russian oligarchs, which the White House is stating is linked to "Russian kleptocracy":



FACT SHEET: President Biden’s Comprehensive Proposal to Hold Russian Oligarchs and Elites Accountable | The White House

This leads me to ask three questions:

1) Could this, in your opinion, set a precedent where the American government has authority to seize assets of foreign investors it deems a part of a "kleptocracy"?

2) What about Russian billionaires who are not allies of Putin? Are they going to have their assets seized too?

3) Why isn't this also done to Saudi, Emirati, and/or Chinese oligarchs with financial and diplomatic ties to the U.S. despite ties to regimes that aid corruption and abuse in their respective countries as well as other countries (e.g., Yemen and, in China's case, North Korea)?

On a side note, only few members of Congress opposed the proposals, including AOC, Ilhan Omar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and a few others with progressive and right-wing leanings:



AOC defends lonely vote against seizing assets of pro-Putin Russian oligarchs

It kind of sends the message that it's perfectly okay for a government to just steal stuff.

 

[Revoltingest]

The reporting I have heard is that the vast majority of current oligarchs are what they are because they are allied with Putin and corrupt business practices. In essence they made their money by being involved with Putin and business. I think a fair comparison is all the republicans who are still tied to trump and his political influence, and keep defending trump despite facts to the contrary.

That seems a false comparison. According to Russia's former
richest man, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the "oligarchs" aren't even
oligarchs....corrupt business owners who raided Russia's assets
after the fall of USSR. They're beneficiaries of political power,
but don't actually wield it. In a sense, Putin has preserved
socialism by maintaining control over the (now privately owned)
means of production. Notice how "oligarchs" who misbehave
wind up in prison (if they're lucky) or dead.
As for the claim that friends of Trump are doing the same thing,
where's the evidence?

 

[F1fan]

That seems a false comparison. According to Russia's former
richest man, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the "oligarchs" aren't even
oligarchs....corrupt business owners who raided Russia's assets
after the fall of USSR. They're beneficiaries of political power,
but don't actually wield it. In a sense, Putin has preserved
socialism by maintaining control over the (now privately owned)
means of production. Notice how "oligarchs" who misbehave
wind up in prison (if they're lucky) or dead.
As for the claim that friends of Trump are doing the same thing,
where's the evidence?

Well I would say Kirchner and his 2 billion investment by the Arabs is a direct financial benefit, and there is something fishy about this investment deal given Kirchner's lack of experience. But politically we see many republicans seeking and getting trump's endorsements. Some are paying off, like JD Vance in Ohio, but others are not like Purdue in Georgia. Both of these candidates are suckling trump's teat by repeating election fraud nonsense. Vance has done a huge 180 in his opinion of trump. So yeah, just as there are Russian officials who benefit with Putin by agreeing with him and not challenging his corruption and rhetoric, there are republicans doing similar with trump.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well I would say Kirchner and his 2 billion investment by the Arabs is a direct financial benefit, and there is something fishy about this investment deal given Kirchner's lack of experience. But politically we see many republicans seeking and getting trump's endorsements. Some are paying off, like JD Vance in Ohio, but others are not like Purdue in Georgia. Both of these candidates are suckling trump's teat by repeating election fraud nonsense. Vance has done a huge 180 in his opinion of trump. So yeah, just as there are Russian officials who benefit with Putin by agreeing with him and not challenging his corruption and rhetoric, there are republicans doing similar with trump.

This still isn't comparable to what happened in Russia
with former Soviet assets.
I understand loathing Trump. But let's be real in our
comparisons with the evil of other leaders around the
world. Dems look pretty stupid now with their claims
that Trump = Hitler.

 

[JIMMY12345]

In these cases there is no victim or actual crime. Are you against this if there are actual victims and actual crimes? Let's say there is a rich drug dealer who does a drive by shooting and a child is shot and injured, are you opposed to law enforcement taking his money to cover medical costs and for pain and suffering?

Democrats and Republicans are united in this. The US rightly wants to avoid a war with even more lives wasted uselessly. They have to deal with a regime run by a political/economic gangster mafia.............. with nuclear weapons. The realpolitik is this invasion of a sovereign country is so evil that ANY measures to censor Putin are justified. The tragedy is the majority of Russians who have no desire to invade Ukraine will pay a heavy price. The price paid by innocent Ukraine is incalculable.

 

[F1fan]

Democrats and Republicans are united in this. The US rightly wants to avoid a war with even more lives wasted uselessly. They have to deal with a regime run by a political/economic gangster mafia.............. with nuclear weapons. The realpolitik is this invasion of a sovereign country is so evil that ANY measures to censor Putin are justified. The tragedy is the majority of Russians who have no desire to invade Ukraine will pay a heavy price. The price paid by innocent Ukraine is incalculable.

Right. This is why elections have consequences for all people. When Russia resets after Putin I hope their leadership and the policies reflect the will of an informed citizenry. Putin took power well beyond the Russian Constitution and there was no system to check his power. They need to fix that.